OmahaBeach

Anything about UT2004 mapping, Uscripting & more
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Maniac
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Re: OmahaBeach

Postby Maniac » Sun 22. Mar 2015, 14:37

About the vehicles (just some thoughts, I'm not sure about it all yet)
- place some heavies near 12/13 tunnel exits
- move fast vehicles from 12/13 tunnel exits to vent shaft exits
- move some of 11/14 vehicle spawns closer to the edge of map (so the path to garage nodes is shorter)
- add Phoenixes (hitscan aircraft) or more Raprots at 5/10 or at base (vs Falcons (plasma aircrafts) and Ciacada/Banshee)
- porbably some heavy (Cobra or Goliath or Bio or smth) at 11-12 or 13-14 areas
- the Rail Tank seems to be a nice addition to this map, but I can't figure out where to put it. Maybe 3 or cores or 4/9?

Also, generic notes
- place some shielding on 3, It's really vulnerable from long range. Maybe docks building or a crushed landed ship?
- TBH, I think these Warthogs are pretty useless on this map

reyno1d
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Re: OmahaBeach

Postby reyno1d » Sun 22. Mar 2015, 15:36

i would replace Falcon with Raptor. Falcon doesn't fit to this map for me.

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ThunderCat
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Re: OmahaBeach

Postby ThunderCat » Mon 23. Mar 2015, 05:33

Hey guys! :wave:

I was urged to provide some constructive feedback about the recent updates on Omaha after a brief chit-chat with a few servermates and 'the boss' :D

I've only recently tried the updated version and have been reading this thread thoroughly -- so I'll try to keep my thoughts coherent and concise -- so here goes:

First impressions were kinda contradictory.

I can see how it is now more efficient and perhaps technically optimised -- and to some extent this makes the map better -- but there's a couple of more or less important factors or elements I feel could be reintroduced or improved upon.

First up:

1. Where's my dragons?

2. Where's my dragons?

3. Seriously, I need my dragons!

:lol: I'm kidding, I'm kidding! But no seriously, it's no secret that I'm a big fan of the 'ol flying doom-machine, so I must admit I was pretty bummed out when I saw they had been replaced. On this map too. But oh well.

On a serious note --

- The double healing pads by node 1 seems a little inexpedient. I can't recall if there are 4 now or if they were each "moved" from the red and blue base respectively -- but if that's the case then maybe they could be moved back.

- The "entrances" to node 1 from the sides seems a little weird all open like that (without corners to create an arbitrary "door").

- Something should maybe be reintroduced where the ion cannon used to be -- it's so open there now it just feels like something is missing. I was never a big fan of that thing either but I don't mind if it -- or a building -- was reconstructed on top of that bunker.

- The Halo-style "Hellbenders" could probably be replaced by either Badgers or perhaps actual Hellbenders. Maybe it's just me but they feel a little out of place aesthetically.

- Also I kinda miss the roof teleporters at the base and the ramp leading to the top. The jump-pads work (some places), but when you try to rush down again in a hurry you'll often land on them and get shot right back up. And this can get somewhat frustrating after 3 or 4 times in a row (maybe I'm just clumsy).

But yeah other than that the map doesn't actually look half bad :thumbup:
It was in dire need of improvements and bug-glitch-fix-renovation.
The nodes works great -- and you now actually have a fighting chance with less exposed nodes at 10 and 15.
Great job on the hatches by node 12 and 13 by the way :clap:

Anyhoots, that was just my two cents -- hope I didn't piss too many people off :lol:
I have probably missed some counterarguments that have already been pointed out or how technical impractical some of my suggestions are so feel free to criticise my criticism :thumbup:
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Maniac
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Re: OmahaBeach

Postby Maniac » Mon 23. Mar 2015, 10:27

Where's my dragons?

Could you please propose some replacement for them? As for me, Banshee seems a bit out of place, but Dragon spamming AA missiles from out of visibility distance doesn't add much to gameplay either :) Maybe there is a version without AA turret? Or some other similar aircraft?

The double healing pads by node 1 seems a little inexpedient...

I'd suggest to wait some weeks until the players get used to new changes - then we can see if it works as planned or even if it works at all. I see both pros and cons of new healer pads location, but I can name no major argument for or against it.

Also I kinda miss the roof teleporters...

There are 2 points: jumppads are a bit harder to mix up and jumppads deny telefrags. But I miss the ramp, too :P

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Cat1981England
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Re: OmahaBeach

Postby Cat1981England » Mon 23. Mar 2015, 23:03

Thank you TC. As promised your pets will be returned to you unharmed within the next 24 hours.

Maniac wrote:I based this setup on the old one, and it doesn't differ that much from the new (Omni version) one. I don't like the idea of 1-2-3 connected because 1 becomes too important in such case. As for me, it damages the tactic possibilities a lot: if you don't own 1, the shortest pathes are (2) - 7 - 8 - 12 - (Core) and (3) - 9 - 11 - 10 - (Core); and your node line can easily be severed at it's start (2 or 3). So, you need either more powerful team to control the middle in head-to-head (and get to the core), or wait until overtime (and play for node count)


I understand your thinking. The problem I have with it is that the link cut off point (the point where a defending team can cut arcoss the link setup and isolate a few nodes) are still all located on the far side of the map. A part from nodes 5-6, 7-8 , we've basically got 3 link runs running from one core to the other. And there's still the issue of teams being able to hold the nodes long enough to win before over time or to get back into the match, both of which are harder now that the Dragons are gone.

Building upon your LS, what about something like this?

OmahaLS2.png
OmahaLS2.png (115.84 KiB) Viewed 1551 times


Maniac wrote:About the vehicles (just some thoughts, I'm not sure about it all yet)
- place some heavies near 12/13 tunnel exits
- move fast vehicles from 12/13 tunnel exits to vent shaft exits
- move some of 11/14 vehicle spawns closer to the edge of map (so the path to garage nodes is shorter)
- add Phoenixes (hitscan aircraft) or more Raprots at 5/10 or at base (vs Falcons (plasma aircrafts) and Ciacada/Banshee)
- porbably some heavy (Cobra or Goliath or Bio or smth) at 11-12 or 13-14 areas
- the Rail Tank seems to be a nice addition to this map, but I can't figure out where to put it. Maybe 3 or cores or 4/9?


Not sure about the Phoenix's, they're harder to hit then the Falcons and we have less ground hitscan vehicles now. Other then that, i'll try and put it all in the next edit :thumbup:

Maniac wrote:Also, generic notes
- place some shielding on 3, It's really vulnerable from long range. Maybe docks building or a crushed landed ship?


I'll make the ship larger and move the node closer.

reyno1d wrote:i would replace Falcon with Raptor. Falcon doesn't fit to this map for me.


I know what you mean, but it's probably the only vehicle other then the Ballista that gives the losing team a chance of getting back into the match.

ThunderCat wrote:1. Where's my dragons?

2. Where's my dragons?

3. Seriously, I need my dragons!

:lol: I'm kidding, I'm kidding! But no seriously, it's no secret that I'm a big fan of the 'ol flying doom-machine, so I must admit I was pretty bummed out when I saw they had been replaced. On this map too. But oh well.


I have a fanatical hatred of that vehicle, but, it could perhaps go back on if it's right for the map. Maybe at node 1 instead of the Banshee, almost as a reward for controlling the centre of the map. It's defently less of an issue on Grit.

- The double healing pads by node 1 seems a little inexpedient. I can't recall if there are 4 now or if they were each "moved" from the red and blue base respectively -- but if that's the case then maybe they could be moved back.


They were moved from the cores to the centre so ground vehicles could use them rather then just the Falcons. Still only two though.

- The "entrances" to node 1 from the sides seems a little weird all open like that (without corners to create an arbitrary "door").


I'll try and make something better.

- Something should maybe be reintroduced where the ion cannon used to be -- it's so open there now it just feels like something is missing. I was never a big fan of that thing either but I don't mind if it -- or a building -- was reconstructed on top of that bunker.


I'm sure we could put a radar dish or something there. I agree it does look a little empty.

ThunderCat wrote:- The Halo-style "Hellbenders" could probably be replaced by either Badgers or perhaps actual Hellbenders. Maybe it's just me but they feel a little out of place aesthetically.


Maniac wrote:- TBH, I think these Warthogs are pretty useless on this map


You're both right. I thought it looked a little bit like the Jeeps or Landrovers they used back then, but they don't work very well on this map. My bad, will be replaced.

---------

I'll try and have Beta3 done by the weekend :thumbup:
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All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

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Maniac
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Re: OmahaBeach

Postby Maniac » Tue 24. Mar 2015, 10:07

Thanks for the work, Cat!

The link setup you suggested will bring in a bit more chaos to the game (I don't say I don't like it, but just so you know :) ), but it is definitely better than my one.
I think that Rail Tank will fit in 10/15 with the new link setup.
On aircrafts: the problem with Falcons is that they are fast and they need 1-2 shots vs turrets/slow targets. The map is big and the fog is preent, so it is effective to fly around the map in Falcon and damage whatver you see, not staying in shooting range of any individual ground attacker for long. The Raptor missiles are pretty easily dodgable with Falcon; so, we need either more Raptor:Phoenix ratio (to suppress Phoenix via raw power/quantity) or an aircraft with long attack range and big speed (can't figure out anything but Phoenix).
Also, a sidenote: Falcons provide absolute superiority vs Cicada-type aircrafts, but not so much vs Dragon (because of its AA turret).

Radar dish is cool! Not enough radar dishes... Construct additional radar dishes! :mrgreen:

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ThunderCat
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Re: OmahaBeach

Postby ThunderCat » Wed 25. Mar 2015, 14:43

Haha! Thank's Cat! :dancegal:

Yes, perhaps only one Dragon in the centre node would be sufficient -- but like the Falcons -- also Dragons can come in handy when you're about to lose.
Some slick manoeuvring and efficient targeting can turn things around (consider it an alternative for those who are less experienced with the Falcon). :lol:

But I like what Maniac inquired about a turret-less version. Personally I don't use those -- and I can't stand the cross-map spamage with those things. So maybe a Dragon with either burst/charge-lasers on the top instead of the AA's or something(?) I don't now.

Also I like the idea of a satellite dish in the centre -- didn't even think of that :thumbup:

Maniac wrote:I'd suggest to wait some weeks until the players get used to new changes - then we can see if it works as planned or even if it works at all. I see both pros and cons of new healer pads location, but I can name no major argument for or against it.


You're right! Good point, we'll just have to wait and see how it pans out :thumbup:

Thanks for being open to and working hard on our suggestions, Cat! :clap:
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Maniac
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Re: OmahaBeach

Postby Maniac » Fri 17. Apr 2015, 10:38

About renaming the health pickup (wrongly named as Health Vail now): it is possible to change the pickup message, but localization files for all 8 game languages are required for it to work correctly. If you think having these extra files is OK for the server, I'll do it for the final edit of the map.

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Cat1981England
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Re: OmahaBeach

Postby Cat1981England » Fri 17. Apr 2015, 17:57

[s]Thanks Mani. I'll finish it tonight and send it to you :thumbup:[/s]

--edit--

Thinking about it, i'm not sure it's worth it for something which is nothing more then a novelty item. Thank you anyway :thumbup:
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1:

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

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Maniac
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Re: OmahaBeach

Postby Maniac » Sun 19. Apr 2015, 00:25

Thanks Cat, great job so far!
All the bad things I could find before are gone, and no new ones emerged.
I'm not sure if the node layout is good in terms of comebacks, but the other ones are certainly worse.
The Banshee seems to be too raw for normal use, though. The bullets don't fly straight to the target as for me, and their damage/blast radius are too small to use them as an area-of-effect weapon. Still, it's something new and the differences between Cicada and Banshee are not big enough to affect play style.
The Falcons and Dragons balance seems to be as close to perfect as possible: their numbers are just right to prevent overwhelming spam, they can do significant damage and there are enough means to get them killed.
:thumbup:


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