ONS-Stonewall-VK-C

Anything about UT2004 mapping, Uscripting & more
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Gaffer
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Re: ONS-Stonewall-VK-C

Postby Gaffer » Tue 17. Jan 2017, 12:31

Dalyup! wrote:
Cat1981England wrote:What if it was made easier to get onto the bridge?

You can get on there from your core by going up the lift and jumping along the roof tops down your righthand side. But i rarely see anyone doing that.


Which bridge are you referring to?


I believe Cat is referring to the wooden bridge that follows the primary on the right hand side (the same one I was referring to in the last section of my previous comment).

With regards to going on the roof tops, I think most players dont even know that is possible. I've been up there exactly once (to pick off a camper) so I know it's a viable way, but in the heat of the game I never remember to use it. Perhaps it is the slanted roof that makes it look like you can't walk along the top...

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Cat1981England
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Re: ONS-Stonewall-VK-C

Postby Cat1981England » Tue 17. Jan 2017, 18:32

Sorry, i meant the stone bridge that runs across the centre of the map and is the main path players use between these problem nodes. If it was easier to use the roof path, then both of those rooms would still have two attackable entrances even if one team controls them both.

Something that frustrates me about this map, is people camping with the lightning gun at the bottom left and top right nodes once their team starts to lose. Always feel it's counter productive.
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Crazy_Eddie
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Re: ONS-Stonewall-VK-C

Postby Crazy_Eddie » Wed 18. Jan 2017, 15:16

Cat1981England wrote:Sorry, i meant the stone bridge that runs across the centre of the map and is the main path players use between these problem nodes. If it was easier to use the roof path, then both of those rooms would still have two attackable entrances even if one team controls them both.

Something that frustrates me about this map, is people camping with the lightning gun at the bottom left and top right nodes once their team starts to lose. Always feel it's counter productive.


IMO this is because these primary nodes are elevated and entirely open. They can be easily taken down from halfway across the map by an attacker with a rocket gun, link gun or even a chain gun. A defender has few choices other than to snipe ...or to make the long, exposed suicide run up to the sheltered secondary node.

Maybe if these primary nodes were also sheltered a bit, like the secondaries, requiring attackers to run up closer to them to do damage?

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-Nick-
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Re: ONS-Stonewall-VK-C

Postby -Nick- » Mon 23. Jan 2017, 17:30

The whole map has choke points, that's what make stonewall appealing, the close, spammy combat. One worst than the node in question is the bridge between nodes 5-9 6-11 and how small that room is. Personally i think the map should be left untouched, but i can give some ideas which might encourage someone else to think of something better.

The node in question is deffintly difficult to re capture. It's not just that the building is very small and the entrances are narrow. The main issuse is that once the attackers advance on the centre nodes (2-1) and the natural flow to nodes (5-8 6-7) this is when the node in question is pretty much impossible to re-capture due to the reinforincing enemy. That is the actuall issue here in my opinion. Three things come to mind. Frist would be to widen and open up the space of that building making a bigger entrance and more space, but I don't think an edit changing the scale is best here. I don't dabble that much in the editor but from i have that seems like abit tricky to keep everything unison linkin to that room (bridge, walkways) surley if you were to expand that room and it's entrance you would have to take into account everything else? But even then you will not be able to take that node once everything has gone to shit. Second would be to take the two windows and make one larger window and add a jump pad to jump through (pic) this adds another entrance, albiet for both sides but still an alternative to the narrow choke. Third, which in my opinion will work best along side point two as well as maybe a bigger entrance on the walkways. That is to have a teleporter from this building (#1) to somewhere here (#2) this would allow players to by pass the attack choke on node 8-7 and the bridge from 10-12 and be closer to the node to re capture and will also benifit the primary chokes near the core.




Image

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Image Image

Gaffer wrote:With regards to going on the roof tops
Gaffer wrote: in the heat of the game I never remember to use it.


Same and i think many other players do not use it.

EDIT: reread. Apparently i can't read numbers.
Find a way.

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Dalyup!
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Re: ONS-Stonewall-VK-C

Postby Dalyup! » Wed 25. Jan 2017, 19:03

If I understand you correctly Nick, are you saying that once node 1 or 2 is captured - and players are pushing into the enemy's secondary nodes (6 and 7 for blue, 8 and 5 for red), then nodes 1 or 2 act as a reinforcing location and making it difficult for the losing team to comeback? I would tend to agree with you there due to the proximity of the nodes to each other. Most maps tend to space nodes apart to create enough traveling time between nodes to make it possible to build it, but the time in Stonewall is only a few seconds really.

I like your idea with the portals, I think this would help to alleviate the above issue and seems relatively simple to implement.

I also like your idea regarding jumppads, but I would alter it slightly. I agree that changing room space or doorway size may have unforeseen ramifications, and would probably a less than ideal solution, but I don't think making the jumppad go through a large window would be a good idea. For one, enlarging the window would be a careful exercise in making sure it is not enlarged too much that the node could simply be destroyed from afar while big enough to get through. I also think getting the trajectory to push the player might be a tad difficult to get as such they're just not a trivial target to blast when they land in the room.

So, I would propose making the jumppads propel a player onto the bridge, where one entrance from the node leads out. This way the node's two entrances are always available and, if the new portals are added, it will introduce a viable choice between going through the typical entrance or hopping onto the bridge and essentially flanking any defenders.

In short, what I suggest:
- Add teleporters like Nick suggested above.
- Add jumppads besides nodes 3 and 4 that propel the players onto the bridge.

If no one has any complaints, I will look into doing this and we can see if it can work.
Image

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Miauz55555
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Re: ONS-Stonewall-VK-C

Postby Miauz55555 » Wed 25. Jan 2017, 20:58

Dalyup! wrote:[...]
In short, what I suggest:
- Add teleporters like Nick suggested above.
- Add jumppads besides nodes 3 and 4 that propel the players onto the bridge.
If no one has any complaints, I will look into doing this and we can see if it can work.

Complain. :O

I agree with that note and the building and so on. I for my part like the map as it is.. because it is as it is.. and removing that chokenode would make it bad.

You actually mean a teleporter (one way, two way) or a real portal so a Warpzone? Here is a funny video from one =D
I put a total 'no' to a teleporter and a 'maybe which is more a no' to a warpzone.

The jumppad on the bridge sound acceptable.
Image

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Dalyup!
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Re: ONS-Stonewall-VK-C

Postby Dalyup! » Thu 26. Jan 2017, 13:34

I mean a one-way teleporter that drops players from the core to the empty doorways seen here:

Image

Not the magical warp zone seen in your video which would honestly look fun.
Image

RottenToTheCore
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Re: ONS-Stonewall-VK-C

Postby RottenToTheCore » Fri 27. Jan 2017, 13:05

-Nick- wrote:That is to have a teleporter from this building (#1) to somewhere here (#2) this would allow players to by pass the attack choke on node 8-7 and the bridge from 10-12 and be closer to the node to re capture and will also benifit the primary chokes near the core.


Great idea.

What is with the small wooden bridges at 6-11 and 5-9? They don't give you the possibility to re-capture either and fall VERY fast, this is even a more severe problem than primaries at 7 and 8, which are also reachable via the wall to your right when you head from 12 to 4 or from 10 to 3. So what about a portal connecting 6-11 and 5-9?

I think that most games are ended via node 11 and 9 :eh: . I think. xD

Dalyup! wrote:- Add jumppads besides nodes 3 and 4 that propel the players onto the bridge.


Could be nice to finish those snipers :nuts:

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Dalyup!
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ONS-Stonewall-VK-C

Postby Dalyup! » Thu 4. May 2017, 17:30

After four months a day of hard work, I have implemented the following changes:

I put a jumppad here (and the other side):

Image

And I put two one-way teleporters in this room at both cores:

Image

Where the left one (as you enter the room) teleports you to the left side archway (as you look at the map), as you see in this image:

Image

Unlike in Nick's original image, the teleporter only directs you to the archway closest to the wall. The right teleporter in room at the core teleports you to the archway on the other side. Hopefully that is clear.

Here is the map with the changes.
Image

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Cat1981England
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Re: ONS-Stonewall-VK-C

Postby Cat1981England » Thu 4. May 2017, 18:45

Nice work y'all.

Testing will be needed from some of you before it can go on boys and girls. *cracks whip*
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