New UT will be free and built from scratch

UT2004 related discussions
[P]etya

Re: New UT will be free and built from scratch

Post by [P]etya » Wed 10. Sep 2014, 14:52

I think they should make the Impact Hammer/Shield Dodge much more useful, because in UT2004 shield dodge is rather "inefficient".

Maybe they should also consider nerfing that goddamn Shock Rifle, because it can replace every weapon.

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Steinein
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New UT will be free and built from scratch

Post by Steinein » Sun 14. Sep 2014, 13:59

I'd so love to make headshots again with the Ripper.
Oh the nostalgia:


It can be a really spammy weapon though, but I always think it makes for great laughs :)

And the environment/ map graphics they showed look so nice :O
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RottenToTheCore
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Re: New UT will be free and built from scratch

Post by RottenToTheCore » Wed 29. Oct 2014, 20:32

[P]etya wrote:Because of these reasons I can't consider Shock Rifle a weapon, which needs lots of skill to make an efficient use of it. There are many good and spectacular combos, which need really need skill, but need luck to a degree.
After i was hammered several times by these annoying shock combos (i was a very good flak monkey in my former life ;)) i started to practise the handling of the shock rifle. It takes many steps from the stombo, over the combo on the horizontal axis up to the combo on the horizontal & vertical axis (in "3d", hope you get what i want to say ;). You need patience and practice.

But i think the mastery is not the combo but rather the primary function! To get this, it needs loads of skill.
[P]etya wrote:Maybe they should also consider nerfing that goddamn Shock Rifle, because it can replace every weapon.
Don't think so. The shock rifle is - of course - a good long distance weapon, like the LG is.
There is no way to use the combo in cramped areas, as the plasma ball travels a short moment before you can release the combo.
The primary beam is in many cases only par to weapons like flak and rocket launcher.
In other cases, per example when you meet players who are/were totally deadly on short distance, like Ebola with Flak and Borg Queen with rocket launcher, i had no chance to win wich only a shock rifle in these situations :D.

I think the weapons in UT 2004 are very good balanced. And when you join DM-servers, all of them are in use frequently. No way you can win with only one.

And to the flak spam at long distances: Can be VERY useful with hitsounds on, when a shard flips around the corner, and hits an enemy you couldn't see :thumbup: .

Greets

[P]etya

Re: New UT will be free and built from scratch

Post by [P]etya » Wed 29. Oct 2014, 20:56

Shock Rifle purposes: short distance (beam, good rate of fire and core spam), long distance (beam, good rate of fire), mob control (combo), neutralizing incoming projectiles (core), causing additional environment damage in some cases (beam, core, combo). The Shock Rifle isn't the best in every type of engagement, but apparently the little difference is negligible.

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Droopy_Bollocks
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Re: New UT will be free and built from scratch

Post by Droopy_Bollocks » Wed 29. Oct 2014, 21:01

Well all I can say from having been playing with UT4 on the online server for a few weeks now :

They've chosen to go with the UT3 levels of gravity, characters feel a lot heavier than 2004, jumping and dodging are by definition a lot more grounded and slower.

I can't say I'm happy with the weapons, they've made a total hash of them imho, the Bio rifle is now purely geared as a spam weapon, regular fire far too fast and alternate to slow really.
Shock rifle is slower, and the damage levels from combos are more contained. The link gun regular fire is now overpowered, far too much so as again in close quarters it's a spam weapon.
Flak is roughly the same, as Rotts correctly says, it's an important weapon but I always felt, like the minigun it's range is a little too far and many people simply stand off and spam flak about as a way of winning against accurate LR and Shock shooters. Rockets are again slower and are a little easier to avoid , although getting up in the air to avoid the ground shots isn't as easy now.

My own personal take on the Shock rifle is that is is the weapon of choice normally, unlike LR's you can't rely on the first HS to kill, but if you can avoid those LR HShooters, getting a little closer and knocking them about with shock is the best way to turn the tables on the hyper accurate boys (you know who you all are)

I did have high hopes for UT4 but the more I read the forums and see the changes, the more I feel it's being gear towards the spammy shooters, there's no real need for a minigun AND a bio rifle, they've knowingly (according to the forum posts) removed the big air time jumpers abilities but increased the potential spam levels massively whilst actively slowing down the game. Even the SSR is slower, and that was slow enough already.

DB
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RottenToTheCore
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Re: New UT will be free and built from scratch

Post by RottenToTheCore » Wed 29. Oct 2014, 21:38

[P]etya wrote:Shock Rifle purposes: short distance (beam, good rate of fire and core spam), long distance (beam, good rate of fire), mob control (combo), neutralizing incoming projectiles (core), causing additional environment damage in some cases (beam, core, combo). The Shock Rifle isn't the best in every type of engagement, but apparently the little difference is negligible.
Mhm. Yes, the shock rifle has many purposes, but some of them are more useful, some less.

Short distance: Core-spam? Nah. Play a deathmatch, you won't win with that. A short-distance core-kill happens rarely, and is most of the time a "wtf-moment".

Good rate of fire? Many weapons have.

Long distance: I agree to that. BUT you need to hit! That's easy when players act like bots; that's not easy if they got movement-skills.

Mob control might be an issue in crowded ONS-areas, right. But you could also easily spam rockets, flak or bio.

Neutralizing incoming projectiles: Again; you need skill to do so.

A strong "tool" like the shock rifle in ut is always the product of much practise. So why not take it as a reward? :)

What do you mean with additional environment damage?



The shock has btw one big disadvantage for less skilled players: It has no splash damage. It depends on a good aiming. Flak and rocket p.e. don't.

To sum it up for me: A player that is wasted by my shock combos is not wasted because i mostly use the shock rifle but rather because of lower aiming/movement/whateverskills. On a tam server i wouldnt win against a pro even if he wouldn't use a shock.

But we won't totally agree in this anyways, as it's a big matter of playing style though :thumbup: .


Greetz