Report: X-Guild

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Maniac
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Report: X-Guild

Postby Maniac » Thu 23. Apr 2015, 00:05

We've had a little indecent incident today... The log is attached.
Long story short: X-Guild informed everyone he had found a good server somewhere, which is not bad as is, but is, in fact, advertisement - which is against the rules. After short argument on if it can be considered advertisement when it's not paid for, he allowed himself to tell Zon3r to "shut the f*ck up" and called us "narrow minded people" and "retards".

I have two accusations against him.
The first one is that I somehow ended up being "retarded", though I tried not to be rude to him whatsoever;
The second one is the attitude towards the rules. We have them for reasons; I strongly believe they are among the things that keep the server & the community healthy. If you are told you violated them, you should at least stop doing it outright and apologize; if you think you did not, you should ask admins to clarify the rules (especially when there is an admin online). Treating the rules as some limits you should outsmart or bypass is not something we should work towards, from my point of view.

Sincerely yours,
that thought that doesn't let you to get to sleep.
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Xac
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Re: Report: X-Guild

Postby Xac » Thu 23. Apr 2015, 13:43

Can we work towards encouraging good behaviour rather than looking for excuses to ban people?

Looks like X-guild didn't know the rules, was rude to some players, but then behaved once things were explained to him. If he carries on being rude and breaking rules then go for a ban, but if he behaves himself we should just draw a line under it. :)
I tried to drown my sorrows, but somehow they learned how to swim...

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Cat1981England
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Re: Report: X-Guild

Postby Cat1981England » Thu 23. Apr 2015, 15:54

Xac wrote:Can we work towards encouraging good behaviour rather than looking for excuses to ban people?

Looks like X-guild didn't know the rules, was rude to some players, but then behaved once things were explained to him. If he carries on being rude and breaking rules then go for a ban, but if he behaves himself we should just draw a line under it. :)


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All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

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Maniac
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Re: Report: X-Guild

Postby Maniac » Thu 23. Apr 2015, 18:07

Xac wrote:Can we work towards encouraging good behaviour rather than looking for excuses to ban people?


First and foremost, there are many measures that can be applied to players besides permanent ban. They include, among other things, an admin warning and temporary ban or muting.

Secondly, I am not looking to ban anybody. In fact, I am aware that admins can decide that's it's me who is the wrong side. What I want is an official opinion on the accident, whatever this opinion is.

Like Hyden said, there is a social aspect of gaming, too. The first tool of the rules enforcement is the players themselves denouncing the behaviour they consider bad; I am trying to have it in mind all the time, and I expect others to act in same way. If I remind some other player about the rules, I expect him/her to acknowledge his/her mistake (like it was in several cases prior to this one). If there is a disagreement of any kind, in particular - about the rules and their interpretation - I expect to have a polite discussion in the chat or on the forums. There were good examples of such situations, too. "Narrow-minded" is an acceptable, though not nice, argument; "retard" is not. What I've got at the bottom line is being insulted for trying to do the things I see as just.

I have a certain mental model (and, therefore, certain expectations) of this community. I want to know if my actions were correct, X-Guild owes me an apology and I should continue in the same manner, or if I am pedantic to the point of stupidity and I should take off my rose-coloured glasses and shift my view on the rules to a more loose one. Anyhow, what I don't want is to get this whole situation shrugged off, because It would lead me to getting some really sour conclusions.

RottenToTheCore
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Re: Report: X-Guild

Postby RottenToTheCore » Fri 24. Apr 2015, 23:24

Hm.

I totally share your opinion about the rude behaviour.

BUT i think, that disciplining people for this kind of "advertise" (most pay their servers out of their own pocket and don't make a business out of them) is indeed a little narrow-minded and over the top. I also often asked guys and gals to join me to play on a server i have fun on.

That's the goal in ut - to have as much fun as possible - right?

I btw interpreted zonys first chat message in the log as an ironic one ;).

Zon3r
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Re: Report: X-Guild

Postby Zon3r » Fri 24. Apr 2015, 23:42

I wasn't serious, but then he tried to lower me onto his level by calling me a retard
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Maniac
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Re: Report: X-Guild

Postby Maniac » Fri 24. Apr 2015, 23:46

RottenToTheCore wrote:... disciplining people for this kind of "advertise" ...


I think that maybe I was not completely clear with my previous posts.

Advertising and resisting against being warned for it is only slightly bad. It's not a big deal.

Being rude to other players in such situation and calling an admin to "make them act nice" is bad. It is both an insult to the other players (namely me) and a sign of disrespect for the rules. I do not consider this a correct behavior.

I think it's worth an apology from X-Guild or the admins opinion on his actions. I don't want him to be banned or to get something equal to it. I have other methods of influence against him, too, but they will only escalate the conflict, whereas the official judgement will (most likely) be accepted by both of us and close it.

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-Nick-
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Re: Report: X-Guild

Postby -Nick- » Sat 25. Apr 2015, 13:34

Maniac wrote:What I want is an official opinion on the accident, whatever this opinion is.


Adervirtisment is agaisnt the server rules. Guild seemed unaware of this rule and understood when Hyden pointed it out. As you said, no big deal. I Have sent a PM to guild regarding the insults and because i think guild should know an accusation has been made. Reads it or not, an admin will interviene if insults from any side continue. That will be the only outcome of this.

Maniac wrote:I want to know if my actions were correct


Rather have players report behaviour they think is wrong then say hurl insults back.

Maniac wrote:X-Guild owes me an apology


I only expect guild to acknowledge and abide the rules, not to apologise.

Maniac wrote:or if I am pedantic to the point of stupidity and I should take off my rose-coloured glasses and shift my view on the rules to a more loose one.


Are you implying that to your own guidelines or the rule breaking of others?

[P]etya

Re: Report: X-Guild

Postby [P]etya » Sat 25. Apr 2015, 15:11

As I can see a certain part was played by Zoner's hostile behaviour. Seriously one shouldn't expect polite behaviour if somebody is hostile towards that person.

Advertisements are against the rules idd, but it's not something which should be taken way too strictly. Afterall a little advertisement doesn't hurt, does it? The rule is mostly applied on those who excessively advertise something while ignoring the warns.

Also I'd like to add something: certain ppl should really stop acting like "mini tyrannical moderators".

Edit:
I've met this guy. He is rather nice. I think there is no real problem with him.

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EmanReleipS
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Re: Report: X-Guild

Postby EmanReleipS » Sat 25. Apr 2015, 18:07

As the admin in attendance, here are my two cents on this matter:

Guild didn't know the rule, but pointing it out to him in a civil manner (like Hydy did) would have been the better course of action. It is clear from his reaction that he did not see Zony's comment as a joke and that might have made him very defensive. I've never seen Guild insult other players before, so I want to talk to him to see if there are underlying issues.

Anyway, what I want to say about this is: Please try to give other players the benefit of the doubt. It seems Guild really didn't know the rule, even though some said "every server has a rule like this, it should be common knowledge". Give him the benefit of the doubt. Not everyone is breaking rules on purpose. Heck, I broke the "use English please" rule before (when I wasn't an admin) and got a polite reminder from Cat on my screen. As I said...be generous. Assume not everyone knows. Assume people make mistakes. This is not cheating, which is deliberate breaking of rules. This is not a case of repeatedly breaking the rules after he has been informed of them, either. (Since he only understood after Hydy explained it in detail.)

The insults are another matter and I did ask Guild to stop with them. Again, it seems obvious that he felt cornered. He didn't realize how his own reaction was inappropriate. I will talk to him when I see him again, but he might not apologize because he felt antagonized first. Since he hasn't shown behavior like this before, I did not punish him for it. But as Funky said, we will do something if insults occur again.

In the future, please try to give other players the benefit of the doubt when they do something wrong and point their mistakes out in a polite manner. :)
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