The Map Roster

Server setup, history & future
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Pegasus
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Re: The Map Roster

Postby Pegasus » Tue 11. Sep 2012, 21:28

laboRHEinz wrote:[...]Peg, [...] [s]omehow I got the feeling you're already preparing books as a reply on that topic[...]
As much as I do wish to respond both to this as well as the (anti-)NV thread in adequate length, I'm still kinda pressed for time these days, for one thing. For another, here's a summary of all the fallacies I came across just from the last exchanges between you 2, in order of appearance, just to get a feel for the size of the stack I'd have to deal with:

-"steady ONS fun on the server relies on finding the golden repeat limit value"
-"a good ONS experience depends on being free to play a few dozen fav maps as often as we like"
-"popularity of maps (and vecs therein) among the base should be the principal metric to base roster changes on"
-"custom vecs is equal to kiddie vecs"
-"differently imbalanced gameplay maps in equal numbers make for a balanced server"
-"maps created in a specific era are better than the rest, ideally should exclusively populate the roster"
-"negotiating maps' gameplay spam amounts with vocal fans toward some golden ratio can lead to an improved roster"
-"maps ppl will always abstain/spec in don't detract from the roster's quality (if it's a uniform phenomenon)"
-"ppl not getting to vote for maps they specifically joined to play is a problem"
-"playing boring, unpopular maps due to a repeat limit lockout is a problem"
-"in maps with OP custom vecs, playing *around* their users' area of ingame influence solves gameplay problems"
-"presence of custom vecs over boring stock ones is [must be] what makes CEONSS good, according to many"
-"a subgroup of fans is a valid reason to keep a flawed gameplay map in the roster"
-"Carpe's assertions that...
+ONS is an outdoors & stock vecs only affair
+their masses are alone to blame for the gradual devolution of the gametype into OP vec cockfights (not the admins, nor the mappers, coders or 'map testers')
+the mino as a 'tool' belongs to ONS at all
+ONS' best days lie in the era before custom (Omni) vecs' appearance
...are valid"
-"map evaluation for the purposes of roster building is a matter of subjective taste"
-"balancing essentially different ppl's maps tastes is what determines a successful UT server admin"

Yeah, no. Either responding in a point-by-point fashion to each ill-conceived notion there or by laying down on you a continuous, monolithic tome of my views regarding player, mapper and admin ideology, analytical approach and best practices toward a much better ONS experience, it'd require time I can't afford right now, not to mention I wouldn't even know where to start with all this. Later and in small parts, perhaps, but not now. Go ahead n' consider yourselves lucky, if so inclined.

PS: DesertJunkyard is a failed gameplay experiment about mashing together every imbalanced land vec under the Omni sun at the expense of every other playstyle, masquerading as a middling at best terrain map that's beaten at every turn by any other semi-popular ONS entry in the same category one could come up with. It was the first original mapping attempt from the mind of Gorzakk, so for anyone familiar with his work, I don't know how they could expect much else. All told, it got passed around for a while and, just like any other ONSPlus server, CEONSS contracted it briefly too, but I'd like to believe it has finally run its course here and we're looking out for better content again now. At any rate, it helps with one's perspective to keep in mind that there's still much worse floating out there than Junkyard. Believe me, there's definitely worse.
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SpaceEngineer
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Re: The Map Roster

Postby SpaceEngineer » Wed 12. Sep 2012, 00:36

Pegasus, your language is too hard for me, I can't understand even half of that are you writed... I want only say that I see no reason to ban and remove any particular map from the server (except the disk space limit). If map is bad and most players dislike it, they will just not vote for it and vote for something else. But if many players vote for it, then maybe this map is not that bad?

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el_timbo
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Re: The Map Roster

Postby el_timbo » Sat 15. Sep 2012, 16:47

SpaceEngineer & Pega & useless annoying over-weaponed & over-vehicled maps!

I thought I'd throw my opinion into the mix on this subject :

Firstly let me say I play UT purely to play, I don't care about winning or scores, as long as a game is fun I'm happy. I'm not great at it but I've tried to improve and taken suggestions from great players how to keep improving and keep enjoying UT.

Recently I've seen a growth in the voting for what I consider to be useless maps and the unbelievably negative way some senior players are playing on them : Desertjunkyard, Tankmeup & slatedworld to name a few. I think these maps do great damage to UT, although for experienced players they hold some challenges, for novices they hold only repeated instant deaths and frustrations through camping, spawn killing and generally lazy and bad mannered behaviour of some players.

This is an ONS server, Labor does an excellent job as admin and is always concerned for the quality of gameplay on his server. The useless maps are detracting from the whole ONS idea of gameplay, maps with terribly overpowered weapons (Falcons, Minotaurs etc) are great for the lazy people who can't be bothered to use tactics & teamwork to win but they have no place on a real ONS server.

I'm not totally against new vehicles, some are well designed and fun, a large portion are simply moronic creations that shouldn't be there. I'm also not against NV maps - again some are DM/TAM reworkings that shouldn't be there but some prove to be a good challenge and can result in some epic battles.

I believe the server map roster is too large, too cluttered with these useless maps and this leads to good solid ONS maps simply not getting played because the lazy players want to ION, Mino or Falcon camp their way to high scores or massive kill figures, completely ignoring their team (or worse still blaming their teams for losing - KIN-FORS is a MAJOR culprit in that area)

I think it's the responsibility of the senior players to help to get these over-weaponed maps removed and to promote good solid ONS team play, and to have some decent manners when dealing with new players - fragging them is one thing, taking the p*ss out them is not acceptable, nor is I think rage quitting or winning-teamswapping. (Xerxes springs to mind)

I would never expect Labor to simply remove maps I don't like, he's too fair minded and sensible to do that but I think the members should have a think and see if we can agree on a list of maybe upto 10 useless maps that we ask to be removed and therefore helping speed the map rotation up and get back to some quality ONS play rather than the vote-for-tanks-and-falcons craps we seem to be slipping into now.

Sorry for rambling, just thought I'd make my thoughts known, I apologise for naming some specific players but I've never been one to keep quiet about such things.

Timbo

Corvus
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Re: The Map Roster

Postby Corvus » Sun 7. Oct 2012, 17:07

I have a kickvote against My_Room.:D

It's a badly designed map. :thumbdown:

- The most annoying thing is the lack of ammo. Taking down one node completely drain all your weapons.
- The nodes are hard to reach especially those which make the shortest way to core to core. Mostly the teleport the only way to get into there which combinate with the spider mines makes a terrible gameplay.
- The top of the map is full with campers and because there is no fog on the map you always have to deal with 5-6 snipers before u can do anything else.
- The core is attackable from the closest node which can be protected so hard by campers and spiders that it makes comeback almost impossible.

Would be nice to replace it with a better map (like HomeSweetHome which is similar but way better).

I take my vote for remove it and because everyone agreed on chat I guess the others will support this idea as well.

Corv

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laboRHEinz
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Re: The Map Roster

Postby laboRHEinz » Mon 8. Oct 2012, 16:35

Hmm too bad :(

If've gone through the chatlogs and have to admit that you're right. Plenty ppl weren't exactly satisfied.

I'll remove it for now and forward your points to the mapper. Maybe he's willing to fix the mentioned issues.

Pretty hard to find new maps these days though. I've been happy that there was a new mapper offering his work. Thus I regret having to shelve it :(

RottenToTheCore
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Re: The Map Roster

Postby RottenToTheCore » Mon 8. Oct 2012, 17:10

I like MyRoom. It is a fast map with short ways, fits my playing style :P.

The weapon thing is an argument against it. But: Can't sb who knows how to do just modify the ammo in the lockers oO?

Never understood why less ammo should bring fun to the ONS-Gameplay.

In Assault it perfectly makes sense though :)

Greetings

EDIT: Heinz already said. Didn't see :coach:
EDIT2: When will Spambox come back from vacation?

Zon3r
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Re: The Map Roster

Postby Zon3r » Mon 8. Oct 2012, 17:16

My issue is only the the lack of ammo, but that can be fixed in 5 mins
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SpaceEngineer
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Re: The Map Roster

Postby SpaceEngineer » Wed 10. Oct 2012, 12:50

It's easy, weapon and ammo can be changed in locker's properies (right click on it -> properties).

SpaceEngineer
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Re: The Map Roster

Postby SpaceEngineer » Sun 21. Oct 2012, 00:00

I have sugest to remove this map from the server: UP-Gallipolu-1915
Playing on it is nothing but being randomly killed by invisible mines, buried everywhere.

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laboRHEinz
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Re: The Map Roster

Postby laboRHEinz » Sun 21. Oct 2012, 07:47

It's already off by now. The hidden mines suck, indeed, and it's too small for 32P. Nevertheless it's a niceley WW1-themed map. Without the mines, 4 times bigger, some more nodes & pathes would make it better enjoyable.


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