Possible CEONSS maps

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laboRHEinz
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Re: Possible CEONSS maps

Post by laboRHEinz »

ONS-RangerSEMSU:

Size & design suited for:
o low player counts (1-11): bit big
+ average player counts (12-22): decent size & design
o high player counts (23-32): too few nodes

Geometry:
- asymmetric terrain design
+ nice z-axis usage, especially at the centre area
- mountain backs between 1 & 4 as well as 4 & 3 offer perfect sniper & camper spots due to minigun turrets, lightning guns and plateaus. They are practically not accessible from cores, thus, once the left primaries (1 & 3) have been captured by the enemy, comebacks will become even harder on top of the imbalanced vehicle placing (see below).

Nodes, link setup:
+ simple & clear node layout
+ cutoff opportunity given via centre node
+ no choke nodes
- only few hops from core to core

Desirable playstyle plurality:
+ on foot duelling well possible, decent NV-movability, nice shortcuts through boosting tunnels from centre, although wide area design makes foot play less significant
+ sniping
+ most of the nodes are easily defendable by turrets and coverings (buildings / terrain)
+ super weapon avaialable at centre
+ flyers
+ wheeled vehicles
+ tanks

Undesirable playstyle encouragement:
- vehicle camping not improbable (countless locations for Hellbender side turrets, (spawnkilling) tanks are also to be presumed)
- excessive sniping is very likely, innumerable sniper spots along with many lightning guns. It probably degrades NV-gameplay.
+ base laming unlikely: bases are not too easy to access, not enough rewarding objectives
+ weapon spamming: wide area design should prevent it
- turret camping very well possible: too many turrets, both laser and minigun ones

Weapon & vehicle choice & balance:
o moderately and unevenly rigged weapon lockers
- not enough vehicles at bases compared to other nodes, making a comeback unnecessarily hard
- vehicle and other resources at the centre node offers a disproportional advantage next to its cutoff property
+ flyers vs. anti-aircraft
o super weapon is at least a bit to work for. However, its centre location is to be reconsidered, the centre already is a bit too significant
+ several special pick-ups / power-ups all over the place
+ no dominating vehicles

Aesthetic aspects:
+ overall look is nice
+ adequate lighting
+ neutral colour theme / no team preferred
- wood bridges are floating without any holding ropes

Conclusion: looks nice, good approaches in terms of playstyle variety, however, negative outweigh positive aspects, especially imbalanced resources placing and terrain design, asymmetry, sniper & turret predominance, comeback possibilities below average, too few nodes for higher player counts :thumbdown:
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Karma_geddon
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Re: Possible CEONSS maps

Post by Karma_geddon »

Again about Caelum:

we just played it with a lot of people. Tastes apart (I like it, some others don't, that's the life), I think that someone putted together some nice suggestions:

1) the map needs more vehicles AND/OR the grapple gun (even if it's an issue only when there are more players)

2) the core needs more shielding for very long range attacks (I totally agree with this one; it could also solve the paladin issue that I stated above in my other post)

3) someone suggested that the goliath at the primary node on the core asteroid might be useless. I used to believe that it might be useful to fight flyers or to defend the core, but I can see why someone may think the opposite. Maybe a Centaur there might be better. Or even just an Hellbender, actually.
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Kentaro
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Re: Possible CEONSS maps

Post by Kentaro »

So let's come into that thread.

I estimate the gameplay near the AirMars's one. Full fly battle, comeback very hard,...

Some suggestions:
- more flyers. Nevertheless i think we have to avoid the super flyers. No falcon, wasp, phoenix or aurora here. The banshee and the draco have their place here.
- like karma said, goliath is useless. Centaur will be nice here (at core only)
- use OnslaughtSpecials to make the middle node unshielded. Makes comeback easier, because you delete the winning team respawn.
- grapple gun
- I would like to see some paths for soldiers on foot here. Jumppads between asteroids, teleporters, etc
- mantas and scorps at base are soooo useless
- would the railgun be nice here (at the core only). Or is it too powerful?
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-FuNkY-MoNk-UK-
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Re: Possible CEONSS maps

Post by -FuNkY-MoNk-UK- »

Kentaro wrote:So let's come into that thread.

I estimate the gameplay near the AirMars's one. Full fly battle, comeback very hard,...

Some suggestions:
- more flyers. Nevertheless i think we have to avoid the super flyers. No falcon, wasp, phoenix or aurora here. The banshee and the draco have their place here.
- like karma said, goliath is useless. Centaur will be nice here (at core only)
- use OnslaughtSpecials to make the middle node unshielded. Makes comeback easier, because you delete the winning team respawn.
- grapple gun
- I would like to see some paths for soldiers on foot here. Jumppads between asteroids, teleporters, etc
- mantas and scorps at base are soooo useless
- would the railgun be nice here (at the core only). Or is it too powerful?
Never used a grapple gun but it sounds fun :D, i have used an anti-gravity gun in trails but it needs objects to stick too and would be pretty useless on this map :(. Nevertheless i agree with more flyers, it's the only way to get to the middle asteroid.

Although i think the golaith is there for defending the core, it is useless. Being replaced with a flying vehicle would be better, same with the scorpion.

From a mappers point of view, it would be rather tricky to connect jumpads from one asteroid to another (regarding the angles and distance between them). Teleporters could work but then again wouldn't that make it a bit to easy to get to the nodes?, after all many players say before this map starts, ''this is a flying map''.

I have no experience with the railgun, would it be more useful than the tank? if so then i am all for that. This map has a lot of potential, just needs more player feedback and the right person to edit the map.
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EmanReleipS
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Re: Possible CEONSS maps

Post by EmanReleipS »

-FuNkY-MoNk-UK wrote:
Never used a grapple gun but it sounds fun :D.
I think you have. The link gun in one of the bathroom maps (the one with the duck in the bath tub and the spider "tank") functions as a grapple gun.

I agree with Funky, the teleporters might make it a bit too easy. The grapple gun might be the best option - or a lot more flyers.
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Karma_geddon
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Re: Possible CEONSS maps

Post by Karma_geddon »

use OnslaughtSpecials to make the middle node unshielded. Makes comeback easier, because you delete the winning team respawn.
I really like this suggestion. Also, maybe it's the right place for a Goliath. Each one of the the side nodes on the main asteroids have Paladin available, so it could be fun.
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Kentaro
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Re: Possible CEONSS maps

Post by Kentaro »

-FuNkY-MoNk-UK wrote:Never used a grapple gun
You can find and test it currently in Air Mars ;)
-FuNkY-MoNk-UK wrote:I have no experience with the railgun, would it be more useful than the tank?
300 damage per shot (Wormbo?), it can one shot a raptor. That's why i said "is it too powerful?"

An other idea: we could use the vehicules teleporter (the one used in GritNights)
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Pegasus
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Re: Possible CEONSS maps

Post by Pegasus »

Wormbo's Railtank is an Ion Tank variant in terms of looks and mobility. Its main weapon fires a cohesive, hitscan ray 30UUs thick that does 375hp dmg and can pass through enemies (but blocked by reflective shields at the cost of being imparted more momentum, I believe); it also has a minigun turret whose dmg rate is ~82hp/sec vs vecs, but slightly weaker against peds at ~163hp/sec (standard goliath does 170hp/sec vs peds, 61hp/sec vs vecs). It's a nifty concept for maps that focus primarily on custom tank battles, but definitely too much to pit against raptors or any popular custom variant thereof.
For a stark example of abusing the Railtank hitscan's strength, check out ONS-SlatedWorld-BigAl-SP1 where skilled drivers parked on the bridge halfway between the primaries and the main island can single-handedly stem the flow of incoming flyers for quite awhile and until enemies decide to come for them from below (which can also be foiled by backing the tank up with the other notoriously imbalanced AA solution, the HellHound).
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Karma_geddon
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Re: Possible CEONSS maps

Post by Karma_geddon »

For the sake of threads usability: GLoups just posted an edited version of RangerSEMSU that might adress Heinz's perplexities about that map, here:

http://ceonss.net/viewtopic.php?p=3783#p3783

(and thumbs up for GLoups, again!)
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laboRHEinz
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Re: Possible CEONSS maps

Post by laboRHEinz »

Sorry for the extended intermission. I've been busy at organising the next server move. Recent holidays took their toll, too :/ Whatever, here's the next review:

ONS-Cruiser_VL-5:

Size & design suited for:
+ low player counts (1-11): well suited
o average player counts (12-22): medium sized map, only few nodes
- high player counts (23-32): too few nodes

Geometry:
o not quite symmetric
o z-axis use decent only in the middle area

Nodes, link setup:
o simple but not really successional and meaningful layout
o cutoff possibility given between 1 & 2, although 3 & 4 are rather pointless thereby
- 1 & 2 are choke nodes
- too few hops from core to core

Desirable playstyle plurality:
o NV-play is doable, however, focus is on vehicle utilisation
o sniping is possible, several nifty locations, but insufficient amount of appropriate weapons
+ adequate node defence because of turrets and coverings
- no super weapons
+ flyers
+ wheeled vehicles
+ tanks

Undesirable playstyle encouragement:
+ wide and open area design should prevent too much vehicle camping
+ excessive sniping unlikely (not enough sniper weapons)
+ base laming improbable, the game mainly takes place in the middle sector
+ weapon spamming is not to be expected

Weapon & vehicle choice & balance:
o weapon lockers equipped only averagely and unevenly
- not quite enough vehicles for higher player amounts
+ strong vehicles (ie tanks) at cores only, suitable for comebacks
+ flyers vs. anti-aircraft looks alright, both many Raptors and Avrils at hands
+ several special pick-ups scattered all over the map
o tanks could be a bit dominating

Aesthetic aspects:
o overall look is rather average
+ decent lighting
+ neutral colour theme, no team preferred

Conclusion: Doesn't look playable for higher player counts, too few nodes, choke ones on top. Rather unremarkable in general, no special ideas at all. Also, significant fps drops in the centre area :thumbdown: