Bot Skill

Server setup, history & future
Zon3r
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Bot Skill

Postby Zon3r » Wed 27. Nov 2013, 11:19

Ok, i know this has been discussed before, but the bot skill is awful, is it on experienced? i know Boss, you said this is a newbie friendly server, but this game is 10 years old, there shouldn't be too many newbies around. Asking for godlike is too much i guess(if the paths are set correctly, the bots are very useful on this difficulty), but setting it on masterful is ok i think. If i get stuck with bots as teammates, they are useless. i know, at evenings the server is usually full, but during the day, it isn't. So what you think guys? Any opinions?
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Wormbo
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Re: Bot Skill

Postby Wormbo » Wed 27. Nov 2013, 11:28

Anything less than Adept is merely target practice for humans. Godlike may be a bit annoying, though. Bots aim like cheaters then, yet still drive like newbies.

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Dalyup!
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Re: Bot Skill

Postby Dalyup! » Wed 27. Nov 2013, 17:41

Yeah, regardless of their difficulty bots navigate terribly and, worse, painfully slow on most maps. You barely have to deal with them. It might be worth ramping up the difficulty on NV maps since they don't have to walk far but they can be damn frustrating at the higher difficulties; dodging things at the last second then just casually headshotting you or whatnot.
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Pegasus
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Re: Bot Skill

Postby Pegasus » Wed 27. Nov 2013, 17:59

I think the most practical point where that line's usually drawn is when the bots start shooting down players' nukes; the first notch below that point tends to be generally accepted as optimal, providing both some challenge as well as some support for small crowd matches. As to bots successfully negotiating vehicles, gametype objectives and map geometry, that's more a product of several circumstantial factors that have more to do with their creators' diligence than just a matter of server admins' picking a somehow derived "best" bot skill setting.
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Zon3r
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Re: Bot Skill

Postby Zon3r » Wed 27. Nov 2013, 20:36

It's ok if they are shooting down nukes and avrils, that means being useful.
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Pegasus
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Re: Bot Skill

Postby Pegasus » Wed 27. Nov 2013, 21:34

You do realize that the effort and cost/benefit ratio to acquiring and using a redeemer on an enemy held objective - given the weapon's scarcity and typically precarious placement - is quite disproportional to having one of your team's bots conveniently take such a projectile down for you just a few short seconds after it's been shot, right? Or that, in terms of gameplay, only one of those requires any kind of skill or planning? Also, bots don't shoot down enemy avrils.

As far as the bigger picture is concerned (i.e. server management policy), the goal typically is to use bots as a temporary aid towards sustaining and growing a playing crowd so that they'll stop being needed at all. Setting their skill to either a very high or low value can have a negative effect on that goal by annoying and even making ppl leave the server altogether (due to the bots' utter stupidity or accuracy) instead of helping; the best choices are usually somewhere in the middle and, for communities like CEONSS' where you have both ppl with a decent DM/dueling background as well as many who're more vehicle-oriented, that usually lies more toward the higher values of that middle band. Thus, it usually boils down to either Adept or Masterful.
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Zon3r
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Re: Bot Skill

Postby Zon3r » Wed 27. Nov 2013, 21:45

"Also, bots don't shoot down enemy avrils."

Oh yes, they do. you should try playing on higher difficulty, masterful and up. If you shoot an avril at a bot controlled raptor, there is a very high chance(not 100%) that it will turn toward the rocket and destroy it. second, if there are two bots in a goliath, the turret guy will simply pick down all your avril rockets.

And yes, i know too high skill lvl would have negative effect. but it happened to me that, during a day, on almost empty server, i was alone in a team with bots, against 3-4 human players(leavers/switchers). It's a very bad gameplay, made me simply leave the server at the end of the match
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Wormbo
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Re: Bot Skill

Postby Wormbo » Thu 28. Nov 2013, 10:40

Bots (and actually all AI-controlled turrets as well) will target enemy redeemer rockets at any skill higher than Experienced, provided they either don't have an enemy or their enemy is out of sight. The reason why higher-skilled bots are more effective simply is their better aim. Shooting down incoming AVRiLs starts at Masterful skill level for most vehicles. Exceptions are the Paladin, Cicada turret and the Firebug, where bots defend themselves at skill level Experienced already. The Masterful level also makes bots shoot at enemy spider mines and bomber planes.

Some bot actions not only depend on the bot skill, but additionally include the individual bot's tactics modifier (ranging from -1.0 for BlackJack up to +2.0 for Malcolm and Brock), which is added to the skill level. I think proper SPMA usage requires Skill+Tactics >= 3, i.e. Average for Malcolm and Brock, Adept for BlackJack and a few others and Experienced or Skilled for everyone else. Similarly bots will only consider going to other nodes for vehicles if their Skill+Tactics is >= Random(2..3). Bailing from almost destroyed vehicles starts at Skill+Tactics >= Adept, but the chance only becomes 100% at Godlike+4, which no standard bot ever reaches.

Simple trick for getting AVRiLs near bot-controlled vehicles: blind fire without lock-on. Only activate the lock when the AVRiL already is near the vehicle. Also very useful when fighting Cicadas with a gunner - there will be no warning and AVRiLs don#t care about decoys until they actually lock onto the target.

Zon3r
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Re: Bot Skill

Postby Zon3r » Thu 28. Nov 2013, 18:46

Through and through, and highly accurate explanation, as always from you Wormbo. i didn't knew the details, just the facts
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Wormbo
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Re: Bot Skill

Postby Wormbo » Thu 28. Nov 2013, 19:51

Facts and details aside, I'd prefer if bots generally acted like on Godlike but aimed like on Adept or Masterful. (That reminds me of a project I abandoned a while ago...)


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