Zombie-map polls

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laboRHEinz
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Zombie-map polls

Postby laboRHEinz » Wed 12. Feb 2014, 22:02

Alright, since these zombie-map polls have gotten more popular even than in my worst nightmares :p , it's better to gather together rules and schedule:

Rules:
  • zombie-maps have to be voted in by forum polls (within only one thread, please), at least 8 participants, majority counts
  • only one at a time
  • duration is one week
  • not the same map in a row
  • not during holiday seasons (Christmas: Dec. 22nd till Jan. 6th, Easter: +/- 1 week)
  • only maps that have previously been on our server's roster may be voted in (therefore the name 'zombie'). Any other, unknown maps have to be proposed somewhere else in order to be vetted first, for instance here.

Schedule (switchover time usually is Tuesday morning):.
January 7th to 14th: Grendelkeep
January 14th to 21st: Rail
January 21st to 28th: Grendelkeep
January 28th to February 4th: Rail
February 4th to 11th: Grendelkeep
February 11th to 18th: Rail
February 18th to 25th: MinusTankMeUp
February 25th to March 4th: Draor
March 4th to 11th: MinusTankMeUp
March 11th to 18th: Draor
March 18th to 25th : MinusTankMeUp
March 25th to April 1st: Draor
April 1st to 8th: Sektor 9
April 15th to 29th: Easter
April 29th to May 6th: Sektor 9
May 4th to May 11th: HomeSweetHome

July 6th to July 13th: Grendelkeep

At any rate, honestly, this poll option really didn't take the course of as Peg and me ever intended to. We were thinking of one substandard map for once in a while, perhaps three, four or maybe five per year, but certainly not to this extent. Seriously, do so many other, innocent players really have to pay so heavily for my personal sins of youth? :shock:
However, if this continues this way, we have to correct the rules soon. Especially those bulk-emails asking for poll participation ... :nono: People should participate voluntarily whenever they visit our forums, they don't have to be urged to vote.

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Anik
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Re: Zombie-map polls

Postby Anik » Wed 12. Feb 2014, 22:56

laboRHEinz wrote:Especially those bulk-emails asking for poll participation ... :nono: People should participate voluntarily whenever they visit our forums, they don't have to be urged to vote.


The returning to grumpy again?

:dancegal:

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laboRHEinz
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Re: Zombie-map polls

Postby laboRHEinz » Wed 12. Feb 2014, 23:22

this time it'd be justified, ain't it? you bad, baaaad girl :D

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Re: Zombie-map polls

Postby Kenny--OMG!! » Wed 12. Feb 2014, 23:23

I would suggest having a forum admin manage a single voting topic per week (titled generically for better recognition) in order to choose the zombie map for the week after that. The topic would contain a poll with a few options (3? 5?), each option a proposed map for the given week, taken from the map suggestion topic that you mentioned. The option with the most votes wins, provided it meets a minimum count - I think 12 is fair enough, having a 6-vs-6 game match in mind. To be able to discuss a map more in-depth before suggesting it for voting we could still create "What do you think of X map" topics (but without the poll, obviously). To keep the forum neat you could implement just one single voting poll topic which would contain the options for the given week and a listy of previously winning maps and +/- vote counts; this could even have the comments closed since we can discuss the proposed maps over at the suggested maps topic.

I think something on the lines of this would keep the whole zombie map phenomenon pretty manageble.

I don't know about all the users/players but I really like the idea of voting for maps, it one-upeed my experience on the forum and in-game, and I think I speak for at least a few more in here too. Just today I was telling a friend that MinusTMU was coming up and he was keen on revisiting Ceonss. So, for my part, I'll be grateful if you'd keep this practice :thumbup:

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Anik
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Re: Zombie-map polls

Postby Anik » Wed 12. Feb 2014, 23:39

laboRHEinz wrote:this time it'd be justified, ain't it?


No? And except for Grendel :twisted: I didn't make any threats or pressure for the voting. Only inviting to vote, as a notification.

you bad, baaaad girl :D


:angelwings:

:dancegal:

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Re: Zombie-map polls

Postby Pegasus » Thu 13. Feb 2014, 00:51

Kenny--OMG!! wrote:I would suggest having a forum admin manage a single voting topic per week (titled generically for better recognition) in order to choose the zombie map for the week after that. The topic would contain a poll with a few options (3? 5?), each option a proposed map for the given week, taken from the map suggestion topic that you mentioned. The option with the most votes wins, provided it meets a minimum count - I think 12 is fair enough, having a 6-vs-6 game match in mind.[...]
You know, you could probably achieve this in an even more flexible (and interesting) way but having said "Weekly Zombie map" voting thread not be a poll at all! Throughout the week people would get to make just one post containing only the name of the next week's ZM they'd like, but they'd be able to edit their choice throughout the running time, thus providing a dynamic similar to ingame map voting. If, say, 5 days in the course of a weekly vote, you see that your fav ZM hasn't got a chance, you can modify your post and coalesce with one of the bigger forming groups, thereby retaining influence up till the last possible point. Obviously this would work only within the voting period, at the end of which Heinz could just lock the thread for a bit, count the votes by hand, check the results against the Rules, make a post announcing the winner, then declare the thread open again for next week's ZM voting and the whole thing starts from the top. Simple, efficient and also helps keep the forum neat, as you mentioned :).

The other part of the equation would be this:
Kenny--OMG!! wrote:[...]To be able to discuss a map more in-depth before suggesting it for voting we could still create "What do you think of X map" topics (but without the poll, obviously). To keep the forum neat you could implement just one single voting poll topic which would contain the options for the given week and a listy of previously winning maps and +/- vote counts; this could even have the comments closed since we can discuss the proposed maps over at the suggested maps topic.[...]
No need to fidget with the poll options each week, as per previous idea, but there could be an always open "General Zombie Map Discussion" thread working with the voting one as a pair, only this one would serve all other kinds of ZM-related purposes: proposing and debating the merits of ZMs, suggesting new ones, even trying to influence others (but more transparently there :p)! Saves everyone from wasting time keeping track of how the zombie map "frontline" changes across poll threads from day to day each week whenever ppl make a new post there as it currently (sorta) works.

Kenny--OMG!! wrote:[...]I think something on the lines of this would keep the whole zombie map phenomenon pretty manageble.[...]
Keeping it manageable in terms of the rest of the content management equation, as well as the community's spirits rejuvenated through this empowerment is what we're aiming for.

So what does everyone think?
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Re: Zombie-map polls

Postby Kenny--OMG!! » Thu 13. Feb 2014, 06:19

Pegasus wrote:You know, you could probably achieve this in an even more flexible (and interesting) way but having said "Weekly Zombie map" voting thread not be a poll at all! Throughout the week people would get to make just one post containing only the name of the next week's ZM they'd like, but they'd be able to edit their choice throughout the running time, thus providing a dynamic similar to igname map voting. If, say, 5 days in the course of a weekly vote, you see that your fav ZM hasn't got a chance, you can modify your post and coalesce with one of the bigger forming groups, thereby retaining influence up till the last possible point. Obviously this would work only within the voting period, at the end of which Heinz could just lock the thread for a bit, count the votes by hand, check the results against the Rules, make a post announcing the winner, then declare the thread open again for next week's ZM voting and the whole thing starts from the top. Simple, efficient and also helps keep the forum neat, as you mentioned :).


Hmm, I think what you meant to suggest by this was to give users the chance to propose (therefore, vote on) any map they wish, not being restricted to the selection of only a few made by the admin for the given week. But think of the following. I, as a user, post a reply with "my top 3 wishes". Two days pass and 10 other users poster their "top 3". I come back to the thread and now I have to manually add up and figure out which map is on top, then change my post accordingly. Then comes the day of the closing. There are 15 minutes left. I, and the other 25 users who've posted so far all cram in on the same thread and start calculating again and editing the posts. Meanwhile, 12 of us have spent too much time adding up and we click 'submit' a few seconds pass the deadline, when the thread is already locked. Frustration all arround -- users, admins, the poor server... There's gotta be a better way! ( :ghehe: )

What you could do instead -- and this will also solve the "user X proposed map Y but that is not 32p and has a horrible bug and etc. etc. -- is to gather up all the valid maps in one poll and let users change their vote during the voting period. Perhaps Heinz can compile a list of valid maps that have been removed from the roster. (But in doing so, I hope he can be flexible with the term valid, since the main point of this is to play old maps for old time's sake regardless of whatever non-fatal flaw they had.) The in-game dynamic and influence plays of map voting would be secured, and all the admin would have to do is reset the results of the poll and add the winning (played) map from the previous week to the history of the voting process. And - again - this thread should have its comments closed.

Pegasus wrote:[...]there could be an always open "General Zombie Map Discussion" thread working with the voting one as a pair, only this one would serve all other kinds of ZM-related purposes: proposing and debating the merits of ZMs, suggesting new ones, even trying to influence others (but more transparently there :p)! Saves everyone from wasting time keeping track of how the zombie map "frontline" changes across poll threads from day to day each week whenever ppl make a new post there as it currently (sorta) works.


Considering that on a "mapS (plural) discussion" with so many maps to relate ideas to, one's train of thought would be oftenly interrupted by a reply to what someone else said several posts before, we should at least split the "possible maps" thread into one for proposed new maps (discussion about viability, testing, upgrades following up to release) and one for the zombie maps feature (why X or Y or Z should or shouldn't be included in the zombie map voting process, "look - I found this map that used to be on Ceonss but Heinz said he lost", etc.)

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Re: Zombie-map polls

Postby Pegasus » Thu 13. Feb 2014, 17:22

Kenny--OMG!! wrote:Hmm, I think what you meant to suggest by this was to give users the chance to propose (therefore, vote on) any map they wish, not being restricted to the selection of only a few made by the admin for the given week. But think of the following. I, as a user, post a reply with "my top 3 wishes". Two days pass and 10 other users poster their "top 3". I come back to the thread and now I have to manually add up and figure out which map is on top, then change my post accordingly. Then comes the day of the closing. There are 15 minutes left. I, and the other 25 users who've posted so far all cram in on the same thread and start calculating again and editing the posts. Meanwhile, 12 of us have spent too much time adding up and we click 'submit' a few seconds pass the deadline, when the thread is already locked. Frustration all arround -- users, admins, the poor server... There's gotta be a better way! ( :ghehe: )[...]
Umm, actually, no, I didn't mean to suggest any of that. First off, I can simply refer you to Heinz' last stated rule at the top of this very thread for why ppl wouldn't get to propose any map they wish, but rather how they'd have to either pick something they know has been hosted on the server before, or first run it by the proposed General ZM convo thread (or a similar one serving the same purpose) so they'd get a go/no-go response, likely from Heinz. Then, in my proposition above I mentioned how members in the ZM voting thread would make "one post containing only the name of the next week's ZM they'd like" explicitly - one post per week, one ZM only. No messing with multi-entry lists with descending order of preference or anything like that which would indeed complicate the math for everyone. Lastly, as to the final minutes' rush potentially screwing the experience up for members, note how Heinz has always been implementing roster changes during the off hours (namely, early in the Euro morning) because the new changes in the server's config files require a reboot to take effect, and one doesn't reasonably do that during normal play hours. Zombie map vote sniping would be pretty unlikely, considering most ppl would be busy with all sorts of AFK affairs at dawn or a little later, but if a particularly, umm, dedicated person did manage to readjust their vote up to the last second, more power to them, I suppose. Whether successful in that or not, however, at least they'd have had their voice count through their previous choice, so I don't see this being problematic to the community in general.

Kenny--OMG!! wrote:[...]What you could do instead -- and this will also solve the "user X proposed map Y but that is not 32p and has a horrible bug and etc. etc. -- is to gather up all the valid maps in one poll and let users change their vote during the voting period. Perhaps Heinz can compile a list of valid maps that have been removed from the roster. (But in doing so, I hope he can be flexible with the term valid, since the main point of this is to play old maps for old time's sake regardless of whatever non-fatal flaw they had.) The in-game dynamic and influence plays of map voting would be secured, and all the admin would have to do is reset the results of the poll and add the winning (played) map from the previous week to the history of the voting process. And - again - this thread should have its comments closed.[...]
Problem with the type of phpBB polls we currently have is, they're not flexible enough in the ways we'd need to be readjusting 'em so that they could preserve previous votes for those that want 'em, but also to allow others to change theirs should a better option get added halfway through a poll's duration. That's not even getting into the limited options issue, as the total number of valid choices could be in the dozens and a poll only lets you set so many alternatives. With all of the above in mind, don't you think a standard thread with re-editable, ordinary posts affords us more versatility and flexibility here?

Kenny--OMG!! wrote:[...]Considering that on a "mapS (plural) discussion" with so many maps to relate ideas to, one's train of thought would be oftenly interrupted by a reply to what someone else said several posts before, we should at least split the "possible maps" thread into one for proposed new maps (discussion about viability, testing, upgrades following up to release) and one for the zombie maps feature (why X or Y or Z should or shouldn't be included in the zombie map voting process, "look - I found this map that used to be on Ceonss but Heinz said he lost", etc.)
Well, asking a quick question (and getting a short answer) regarding the admissibility of a certain candidate as a ZM doesn't seem like that big a derailment, tbh. Doubt the rest of the convo would run the risk of getting thrown off on account of such posts even half as it would from diverging fronts in terms of specific maps' merits and other kinds of politicking :p. Still, just from observing the various ZM-related polls up till now, there seems to be a sort of natural progression of periods where each map gains the most focus for awhile, and then attention moves on to the next proposition. Seems unlikely that any other kinda general ZM convo thread would settle into a routine deviating much from that.
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Re: Zombie-map polls

Postby Cat1981England » Sun 4. May 2014, 11:26

I would like to change the map changeover schedule to Sundays. So our most recently voted map HomeSweetHome will be made available from today, until next Sunday. Sektor 9 will stay on for its week long run until Tuesday.
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