Avoid (or at least contain) vehicle killing at core

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Karma_geddon
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Re: Avoid (or at least contain) vehicle killing at core

Post by Karma_geddon »

Of course, in this thread, we are talking about something on that thin line between tactic and unsportmanship, that is at least quite slippery. ;)
And it seems to me that regular vehicle spawnkillers (the ones that, for example, camp at the core just to damage vecs, or the one screenshotted in the thread on the Omni server that you linked) are quite rare here, these days.

But, when it happens in a game (even if it's rare), it really sucks. It's one of these things that makes people complain in the chat, and that can (or can contribute to) ruin a good game.


I do believe that spawnkilling vehicles is pretty much ok (you spend some game time when you could have killed people or attack nodes, to destroy enemy vehicles, that will eventually respawn, just like the people. Also, in some maps is pretty much mandatory to spawnkill some vecs as soon as possible).

What I think that it's not ok, is spawn "burning" them. Because they will stay burned (without respawning).


Also, if I read it correctly, the thread that you linked only takes into account the option of "shielded vehicles VS non-shielded vehicles", that would prevent vec full spawnkilling in every possibile case. With the regenerating locked vehicles (my point 2 of the first post, or 2+4 with Wormbo's input) you can still spawnkill, but not spawn "burn" (or at least, you can do it, but it will become tactically useless, unless these vehicles are needed for the enemy team in a short time, and in this case I suppose that it might be quite legit to just damage them, as for the Bitchslap/Tyrant/TripleSlap cases).


The game devs implemented the full shielding of the locked vehicles, that is very different from this one.
Also, we all know that there are some things in the ONS game mode that are not so well designed, and that exists since day 0*, and I believe that this might be one of these things.

I would like to talk with you about your mentality of "people solutions to people problems, tech solutions to bugs", but I know that it will quickly become a matter of philosophy, and that would go way beyond the topic of this thread... So I'm keeping this talk for another time ;)


And finally, about the whole vec spawnkilling thing being "good" or "bad"... What if we open a poll about it?
If the community votes positive for a tech solution on this, would the vote be taken into account?


*(you often mention the fact that the classic scorpion is a deathtrap, and I TOTALLY agree - the EONS scorpion or the UT3 scorpion are way more fun and balanced for me; also, after these years, we all learned that chockepoints are not so fun - and looking at the stock maps, it seems that the devs didn't).
You can find me on fb here, if you want: https://www.facebook.com/paolo.davolio.3
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Wormbo
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Re: Avoid (or at least contain) vehicle killing at core

Post by Wormbo »

Since Pegasus only really pointed out previous attempts at making locked vehicles invulnerable, I went ahead and created a proof-of-concept mod that heals locked vehicles at shielded nodes/cores:
ONSVehicleProtection.zip
Onslaught Vehicle Protection (for all locked nodes)
(4.56 KiB) Downloaded 504 times
It doesn't prevent opponents from damaging or pushing around locked vehicles. If the vehicle and the node are both locked, the vehicle self-heals after taking damage. It even resets when it gets pushed too far away from its spawn location.
This version applies protection to all locked nodes, but I could imagine adding some kind of "distance from action" check to further restrict the protection to nodes that do not immediately contribute to the game at this time. (Locked nodes near unlocked nodes do contribute, but nodes far away don't, due to the time it takes to drive/fly vehicles to where things happen.)
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Xac
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Re: Avoid (or at least contain) vehicle killing at core

Post by Xac »

If you put it to a poll karma, you'll have to be careful how you pose the question as people will have similar but different opinions. ;)
Play it safe, do what Droopy says..."Always double tap!"
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Wormbo
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Re: Avoid (or at least contain) vehicle killing at core

Post by Wormbo »

That's why a poll doesn't make sense yet, until we figured out what those opinions actually are.
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Karma_geddon
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Re: Avoid (or at least contain) vehicle killing at core

Post by Karma_geddon »

First of all: Worm, thanks!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Xac wrote:If you put it to a poll karma, you'll have to be careful how you pose the question as people will have similar but different opinions. ;)
Wormbo wrote:That's why a poll doesn't make sense yet, until we figured out what those opinions actually are.
A poll now could be made just to actually know what these opinions are (and yes, it would require a lot of attention from the TO and to choose the right words, since is easy to be confused on this topic).
However, at this moment, since Worm already created a mod about it, I'm more willing to just wait until Heinz gives us some feedback, before opening any poll.
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Zon3r
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Re: Avoid (or at least contain) vehicle killing at core

Post by Zon3r »

Simple, only core vehicles need protection, but only for the losing team, meaning the enemy has at least 60% of the nodes. Everything else can be abused. The winning team has access to more vehicles, thus they can more easily overpower the other team
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[P]etya

Re: Avoid (or at least contain) vehicle killing at core

Post by [P]etya »

What about if the locked vehicles would reflect 25% of the damage? :D Then ppl would consider when they attack those vehicles.
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Wormbo
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Re: Avoid (or at least contain) vehicle killing at core

Post by Wormbo »

That's one of those "why did I die?" features that will induce whining from unsuspecting players. Also, what if you're shooting at vehicles at an attackable node that suddenly becomes locked? Delayed activation of the reflection feature isn't really a solution. And TBH I always hate generic damage reflection features, especially when it's not necessary to achieve the intended goal and even more so when it comes from an enemy object.
If you really want to punish lamers for attacking locked vehicles at currently irrelevant nodes/cores, I'd go that extra mile to implement Jailbreak's "llama hunt". ;)
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[edit]
Yes, that's a UT2003 Assault Rifle. The pic is over 10 years old.
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EmanReleipS
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Re: Avoid (or at least contain) vehicle killing at core

Post by EmanReleipS »

Wormbo wrote:That's one of those "why did I die?" features that will induce whining from unsuspecting players. Also, what if you're shooting at vehicles at an attackable node that suddenly becomes locked? Delayed activation of the reflection feature isn't really a solution. And TBH I always hate generic damage reflection features, especially when it's not necessary to achieve the intended goal and even more so when it comes from an enemy object.
If you really want to punish lamers for attacking locked vehicles at currently irrelevant nodes/cores, I'd go that extra mile to implement Jailbreak's "llama hunt". ;)
Image

[edit]
Yes, that's a UT2003 Assault Rifle. The pic is over 10 years old.
That would be awesome. :lol:
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Wormbo
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Avoid (or at least contain) vehicle killing at core

Post by Wormbo »

EmanReleipS wrote:That would be awesome. :lol:
...and trippy. I just hope players won't start laming around, just to get this effect:


Well, let's be realistic - "llamaizing" offenders comes with the same problems as reflecting damage. I don't think it'll work out, even though I'd really like to see llama hunts outside the Jailbreak game mode.
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