ONS-Rail

[Maniac]

Thanks for all the work! This map never was closer to perfection.
4a is definitely better. I just watched how blue team have taken (with my help) all the side nodes and , while reds sneaked through a diagonal line and attacked the core. There are more ways to pass central line of map, ergo less choke points. Just as in modern game design - there are multiple pathways to same objective, the direct one, the fast/risky one and the stealth one.
4b doesn't really fix the problem: a node inside a small room situation suggests spamming the node room with all you have, and still you have to pass very close to central node to cross center.
A sidenote: it would surely help if you could go in details about "how certain people play", so other mappers could take it into account.

[Hyden]

Thanks for the update to rail, it's much more enjoyable now even though I can't use the door close switches to lock Steiny out anymore

[Cat1981England]

ONS-Rail-C-Final

Final clean up and tweak, no gameplay changes. Managed to get an extra 2/3 fps out of it even with the additions so performance should be fine. Watched a few matches with bots and the play is nicely spread out which should help the net performance. As far as I'm concerned this is the final edit but I'll wait until Sunday before putting it on to give everyone a last chance to take a look, so speak now or forever hold your peace

A sidenote: it would surely help if you could go in details about "how certain people play", so other mappers could take it into account.

Well my point is that you can't really do anything about it. Everyone likes to play a certain way. Some people like to sit on a easily defended hill with a tank, some like to go round and round the map Manta whoring and a few go charging into an area with the highest concentration of players with their shieldgun out Obviously when you are working on a map you have an idea about how you would like it to be played and along with the map itself you should let those pick the vehicles and weapons. But the fact is if you get 32p on a map who all want to go for the same node killing each other with the flak - there's nothing you can do to a map to change that.

[Maniac]

I have to admit, the new link setup is hard for comeback. It's easier to kill primes than to kill 2nd row of nodes. And when 2nd row is taken by attacker, it's hard to get central node back, too. It is all possible via tactical use of tunnels and roofs, but tacticians count <<< spammers count in these days
- The feature of this map is many small forms like rooms, boxes, corridors etc. So, death rate is much bigger and fast ways to get from point to point are needed;
- What about adding an accelerator jumppad in tunnel from base to center and back? Team almost never get to other team's diagonal prime in time (while center node is not yet destroyed);
- What about making the main prime room (that node which connects to 2 side nodes) exit to core side only? It's too easy to get from outside and send couple of bullets in, and rinse and repeat... When holding 1 or 2 of 2nd row nodes, that is

[Cat1981England]

Well the second issue with Rail after performance was the stalemates, which I think has been solved up to a point. Last night the game went from blue to red and back to blue over the first 10 minutes before blue took control of the map and gradually killed the core just before overtime, and that was with 23 players.

I think the affect of making it easier for teams to get back into the match will be a stalemate at the centre of the map again. Unless someone is willing to sit back and hold a node while their teammates attack, or someone is willing to pickup the kamikaze and wait in the tunnels for their team to build one of the nodes, well, they deserve to lose.

I'm not going to have any time over the next couple of weeks to have another edit, but by that time everyone should have worked out how to play the map and then we can see how it really is.

[Xac]

Played it on Saturday. Seems like the health packs have gone that were on the flat beds around the middle nodes. Any chance of getting them back?

[Cat1981England]

Sure, if we have another edit i'll put them back

[Xac]

Sure, if we have another edit i'll put them back

Thanks, I think it will help gameplay around the middle nodes if you can stay alive just a bit longer in those areas by topping up health.

[Cat1981England]

So far the feedback has been very good, but there has been one or two suggested changes which I want to try and counter.

First is increasing the speed at which the players can move through the tunnels by using a volume or by adding a moving platform like the one on Grit. The idea behind the tunnels is to offer a third way of getting around the map and to help spread the play about a little, but also to help players get behind the opposition. By making either of the suggested changes I think it would make the tunnels too attractive to players and they would become a spammy mess or it would move the majority of play back towards the centre of the map as it would be too easy to take the centre nodes.

The other suggestion is that the primaries are too hard to hold and they should be given more health or extra protection. Access to all the primaries is restricted to just two doorways, so it should be very easy for teams to hold them even in 5v5. As the link setup isn't symmetrical from side to side, the doorways have been placed in an intentional way to make nodes 2 and 8 easier to attack from cores and nodes 3 and 9 easier to attack from the centre. This gives an advantage to both teams to take advantage of - should the players try looking at the radar map rather then running around like headless chickens holding down the fire button (That's not directed at anyone, just a general observation of the matches I've watched so far).

So far it's been played 15 times and 11 of those times it's been won before overtime and in only two matches has a team managed to get to overtime without receiving core damage. Obviously in time as people learn the map things may change, but as it stand I really think the map is nicely balanced and any gameplay changes will just result in us going back to stalemates. I have no plans to make any future edits.

[Maniac]

A little note: with one of the prime nodes linked to 2 other nodes, you need to destroy them both to secure prime. I've seen 3 or 4 times how the team struggles to take 2nd line nodes for 3/4 of the game.

And yet, like many other maps, this all can be solved by a little teamwork... So, the decision is: either to sacrafice good design decisions and make game easier for dummies casual players or to let it all be. As for me, the map is good as it is