CEONSS

Some of you were saying that you had fps issues on ONS-BlockFort-V1-Prerelease, so i had a look at it in the editor and the map is virtually unoptimised which explains why some of you have low fps. I had a quick google and it turns out that this is an OMNI beta map from 2009 They have edited it a few times and are now up to V5 which i'm guessing has better performance, so we could go and ask them if it's ok to use their current version, but, i don't think it's a good idea for both servers to have the same map and because this is such a basic map (therefore quick to make), i thought we could try rebuilding it.

ONS-LegoFort-C-beta1 If you are missing any files you'll need the map pack

It's a slightly smaller then V1 and has a Lego texture theme, but the same design. Suggestion about the link setup are welcome but personally i think the V1 LS is good. I have thrown on a few new vehicles to try and get some ideas going, but i haven't tried to balance them yet, so feedback is very welcome.

- Badgers have been updated and one of them at each core is a Flame Badger.
- All Scorpions have been replaced with the EONS version apart from nodes 3 and 8 which have Wormbo's Web Caster version.
- Each core has an "Odin" tank which is sort of a cross between a Levi and a Rail tank. Very powerful but slow moving and easy to kill from above.
- The Flame tank has been replaced by a Firebug tank.
- The Aegis at nodes 2 and 5 have been replaced by Poltergeist tanks.
- The updated version of the Ion tank is still on there because we've never really had an issue with spawn killing on this map and the core spawn point are more protected now.
- The Super Shock Rifle at the top centre of the map has been replaced with a Vortex (Sector9) pickup.

This isn't meant to be a final version, i'm fishing for ideas. So please do have a look otherwise i'll have to balance it myself and i can guarantee many of you won't be happy about that

Initial thoughts:

• Why are the core spawnpoints where they are and not also (or if it is, primarily) in the vehicle cave? Placing them outside but not near any vehicles gives me the feeling that players at the core may be harassed, especially when it is under attack. Even though there is spawn protection for a few seconds, this does not cancel the movement stutter that occurs when you get hit and can slow things down.
  
  Generally, I think it is better to scatter spawnpoints around the core or around vehicles. This is to mainly prevent teammates getting in the way and spreads the action around the core more. Furthermore, for this map, one side of the core is essentially exposed: one primary node faces it but there are no vehicles or potentially spawned players to defend it.
• To add to the above point, the vehicle cave entrance is an attractive area to spam, especially with the proximity of the ion tank on the top node. It doesn't take that long to bring it over and rain death down. Then again, you did say here was not much case of ION tank spam so might not be a problem.
  
  I would also recommend putting a portal to somewhere in the vehicle cave. Just feels like a trap right now.
• The Odin is very strong. I would agree with you saying it was "easy to kill from above" if not for its secondary turrets. Those fire very quickly and do considerable damage. A raptor wouldn't stand much chance considering its size and fragility.
  
  I can see this vehicle being a camping nuisance due to its range. It's not really that slow, no worse than the goliath, so it wouldn't take that long to bring up to the roofs. Cicadas might overwhelm it up there but that's it: raptors would just get blasted down and it's a pain to bring mantas up there. I can see the benefits of having a mighty vehicle to draw peoples' attention, almost like a secondary objective but it might be a bit too strong. Will have to wait and see on the server first though.
• I have general disdain for the flame badger since it is a stronger - and thus worse - version of the badger but it should be okay where it is.
• The node layout is fine, but is influenced by flyers more than anything. Most of the ground vehicles are aimed more towards obliterating infantry. Perhaps more anti-flyer vehicles would be good?

Thanks Daly

I didn't really think about the core spawn points tbh, i just placed them in a similar area as blockfort. They are now in the vehicle cave (i like the name btw ) which should stop anyone unintentionally sending spawning players halfway across the map when they are attacking the core with the ion. The spawn points are divided between two groups in the v.cave which should give everyone an equal opportunity to grab a vehicle at the start and are also evenly spaced so no one gets in the way.

There's also two new teleporters in the v.caves which exit on top of the core block where the Raptors are. This means that players won't have to go to the jumpad outside to get to the Raptors but also they can also have some hight advantage and can attack any ground vehicles which may be attacking the core. The down side to this is that the two primaries are even more exposed then they were before, so the primaries may need to be moved inside an alcove, moved inside their own block or spawn a Paladin to counter this.

I've left the core jumpad for attackers so they have somewhere to go if they have to abandon their vehicle.

I agree that the Odin will need to be tested with real people, but i do think it's made for this map with it's linear design. I found it easy to kill when bots were using it - with either Grenades or Raptors mainly due to it's slow primary weapon. We could use the Ultimate Mapping Tools to reduce it's HP down from 2000 to 1000 or even 800 if you think it would be too dominate with people.

The two things that i like about the Flame Badger is its vulnerability to flyers and the fact that you can use it to attack nodes without needing a direct line of sight by shooting nearby walls, ceilings etc I personally think it has brought an extra dimension to Aggregation Alley, hopefully it can do the same here.

ONS-LegoFort-C-beta2

- Moved core Badgers, spawn points and weapon lockers inside the vehicle cave.
- Add two teleporters to each vehicle cave.
- Replaced core HellHounds with KingHellHounds.
- Extra entrance to the vehicle caves.

A good one cat , just a thing, did you try to keep the skybox (or even a new one), because, it's only my opinion or the map give a claustrophobic feeling ...

ONS-LegoFort-C-beta3

- Skybox added.
- Paladin added to right hand primaries.
- Lot's of small adjustments to lights, jumpads etc

I've placed a limitation volume (destroys projectiles) at the top of the map to stop people shooting the false ceiling with the Flame Badger and Odin, however, it's the first time i've ever used one, so i don't know if there are any performance or stability issues with them.

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I think we need some online testing with real people to see how the map is played. Feedback about vehicle balance and any bugs please people.

Bump.

Any thoughts on the vehicles? The only real things to come up in the chat logs so far have been replacing the Firebug and limiting the Lightning gun ammo.

The map looks better then when I played it the last (and first) time. Vehicles look good, but need some testing in real life. With bots i could easily destroy odin with manta, so that's not an issue.
I still don't like being respawned so far of the core. When defending the core every second counts and it feels like ages to get there. Perhaps a teleport from the very center of vehicle cave to vicinity of a jump pad near the core (and badger or two outside the cave, near the core would be good)? And I would like the teleport to predators on roof to be closer to them. It's just a waste of time having to run to them so far.
About the last point I'm not so sure myself, cause it could ruin the tactics. Mainly, to add a jump pad from the core block to the one across with a node on top of it. The map would be more on-foot friendly, but then again, attackers would be in a disadvantage.

widurr wrote:I still don't like being respawned so far of the core. When defending the core every second counts and it feels like ages to get there. Perhaps a teleport from the very center of vehicle cave to vicinity of a jump pad near the core (and badger or two outside the cave, near the core would be good)?

Good idea. I've only played LegoFort a few times, but the cores always seemed to go down without the losing team defending them. A teleporter to the core could help the defenders get there quicker. Alternatively (or additionally?) the walls between the vehicle cave and the core could be turned into transparent/glass walls, so that the defenders can see attackers and will hopefully be more likely to rush to the defense.

EmanReleipS wrote:[...] the walls between the vehicle cave and the core could be turned into transparent/glass walls[...]

To develop your idea further you could change the door to the core side and make a force field like the one around nodes. You can go through but not shot obviously you can't shot through from both sides. Or just a side exit for on foot players.

Thank you Wid, E and Miau

I'll try and knock something up over the weekend and post back here to see what you think