CEONSS

I'd like to note that the server has a certain number of popular maps that are bad in the terms of design, and I hope that replacing or repairing them could narrow down the popularity gap, so we can have e.g. 10 mediocre maps in play instead of 8 mediocre maps always skipped and 2 sh*tty but popular maps always in game. I do realize that doing so will not be perceived well by many players; but as I see it, the core idea of CEONSS is to have different types of good ONS maps.

If some of the maps are not good in the terms of pure ONS, it only means that the other maps like this one were only worse. E.g. the MassDestruction (an arena-type map with one node) was replaced with DeathDome (pretty much the same kind of map), and there is at least a smell of ONS in this DM now. From the recent changes, same goes about Maelstorm NV -> Pandemonium.

I see BoF as one of these maps. It's full of spam and holds only so much ONS in it - as opposed to VK Playground and Stonewall, other big NV maps (I excluded Pandemonium from the list because of its unique nodes quantity and setup). Now it is not even a proper DM map because of the weapons selection and the map architecture - 90% of time it's shock combo/flak spam. Hell, just running around with a shieldgun can give you a decent amount of points. I would like to have more ONS in it or to get it remove from the list. I enjoy playing it sometimes, too, but I'd only be happy to switch to some DM or Instagib server to participate in a massacre - instead of having it on an ONS server when I'm here to play ONS.

P.S. : One more thing I'm obliged to write to stick to my opinion: I think that the Grendelkeep map (which I carefully avoided in the text above) is almost as spammy as BoF, but at least it has some smart usage of Z axis architecture so the spam is spread widely across the whole map, not limited to 3-4 choke points. I would like it to burn in oblivion too, though.

Maniac wrote:I'd like to note that the server has a certain number of popular maps that are bad in the terms of design, and I hope that replacing or repairing them could narrow down the popularity gap, so we can have e.g. 10 mediocre maps in play instead of 8 mediocre maps always skipped and 2 sh*tty but popular maps always in game. I do realize that doing so will not be perceived well by many players;[...]

Or by the admin.

Targeting the most popular maps is a very risky strategy from my point of view. I would rather we looked to create/edit the maps at the bottom of the roster and increased the quality that way. Over time we would go from 8 mediocre and 2 shite, to 18 mediocre and 2 shite, then 28 mediocre and 2 shite etc while maintaining the popularity of the server over time.

I'm talking about what I've seen so far, and I haven't got so much bad things to say about other popular maps like Tyrant, Grit, DoubleSlap etc. Both Maelstorm and MassDestruction were pretty popular, their replacements are less popular in terms of games count but much more popular by total feedback.

Anyway, I'm only expressing my opinion here, and I don't have any stable foundation to declare it the only one true way of doing it.

I realise that I have a different perspective partly because maintaining the server's long term popularity ultimately falls on me, but also because I obsess over every change we make to CEONSS and know what difference they make to us.

With regards to the two maps you mentioned. MassDestruction was only on for a week almost as a Zombie map because I was in the Christmas spirit. Nothing replaced it.

Maelstorm-NV was played on average once every two days, Pandemonium has been played 74 times in 64 days. At the same time this allowed us to put Maelstorm back on the server (because we don't have two version of the same maps on the roster) and replace AratheiaBeta6. The result is we have a better roster and two more popular maps.

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I understand that it is frustrating that some god-awful maps such as BoF are voted for as soon as they become available, but CEONSS has to come first regardless of yours, mine or anyone elses view. I think it's fair to say that you and I share similar thoughts about most maps.

If and when your map is ready, it can replace BoF because even though it's voted for often, there's been a decline in the number of people playing it and the map after. Which suggest a certain fatigue with it.

The unofficial (and now official aim) is to fixed the bugs and poor performing 1st/2nd tier maps and edit/replace the maps at the bottom of the roster.

... I have a different perspective ...

Once again, I'm only expressing my mind here. You may take it into consideration (or ignore it) along with the other players' feedback; When it comes to the real life server management, I'd advice exactly *not* to follow what I've posted here, because I understand it may (and probably will) harm the server popularity.

About these 2 maps and their popularity: I don't have exact numbers, so I am speaking from my impressions. For example, the Dreamus map: it's not in top-5 by Gametracker stats and I'm not even sure if iit's played every day. And still I usually notice it and remember when it was in game, because it brings a 20 min pause to ONS, and more or less the only thing you can do during this time is DM'ing and dying. I remember the MassDestruction, too, for pretty much the same reason. On the contrary, Tyrant is the 1st map by Gametracker now; it's not perfect, either - but it doesn't stick in my mind so easily, because it's just another ONS map.

CEONSS has to come first regardless of yours, mine or anyone elses view

Of course it has to! I've seen couple of communities where everyone's vote had equal power - and they didn't last long nor they were successful

Sorry if I'm coming off as a bit of a twat, I just want to avoid a situation where a kind soul such as yourself spends time working on one of these "shite but popular" maps such as BoF, only to find that it doesn't get on the server that's all

Maniac wrote:About these 2 maps and their popularity: I don't have exact numbers, so I am speaking from my impressions. For example, the Dreamus map: it's not in top-5 by Gametracker stats and I'm not even sure if iit's played every day. And still I usually notice it and remember when it was in game, because it brings a 20 min pause to ONS, and more or less the only thing you can do during this time is DM'ing and dying. I remember the MassDestruction, too, for pretty much the same reason. On the contrary, Tyrant is the 1st map by Gametracker now; it's not perfect, either - but it doesn't stick in my mind so easily, because it's just another ONS map.

I don't know what algorithms Gametracker use for player numbers, popular map etc but they're never right. Here's the most recent map numbers for a 30 day period. Map>Times played>Avg players>Avg map length.

a kind soul such as yourself

Whoa, I'm flattered

spends time working on one of these "shite but popular" maps

I've managed to do terrible, terrible things to MTMU, mind you!

I don't know what algorithms Gametracker use for player numbers, popular map etc but they're never right.

I just double-checked the ut2004 official stats data. Here are the most popular maps by playing time for last week:
Map | Time played | Matches played
Tyrant 345 (15)
BitchSlap 294 (15)
BridgeOfFate 281 (14)
Playground 263 (10)
StoneWall 245 (14)
MasterShower 240 (11)
Gunshop 238 (14)

The next 2 are (standing off by 30+ minutes, but still over 200):

Barracks 205 (10)
AggressiveAlleys 202 (14)

I'm not sure about how they count "a week" (it can be anything between -6 and -8 days from now), but all of the top GameTracker maps (Tyrant, BridgeOfFate, BitchSlap, Gunshop, MasterShower) are in top ut2k4stats, too.
Detailed analysis of map positions in GT rating:
1. Tyrant: 50 minutes gap from the next one, first place in both lists.
2/3. BitchSlap / BridgeOfFate: the difference is only 13 minutes; they are on 2nd/3rd places in both lists. Considering this, I call it pretty accurate, too.
4. Gunshop: the gap between it and UT2k4stats 4th position is 25 minutes. This is the only map which seems to be out of place here, but 1 or 2 matches (25 mins easily fits in 1 Gunshop match) could move it here;
5. MasterShower: it's 5th in GT rating, and the gap between it and UT2k4stats 4th position is 23 minutes - which means that 1 match could easily put it on the 5th position.

I'd like to explicitly note once more that the max difference between Playground, StoneWall, MasterShower and Gunshop is 25 minutes, so the difference between UT2k4stats and GT stats is something like 3-4 matches played, and it's not bigger than approx. 1 match of time for each of these maps.

So, the GameTracker stats, while not being exactly precise, are not "never right" and, I daresay, are pretty accurate.

Sincerely yours,
"Igor, thur"

---edit---

MyRoom is currently top
I remember seeing it on this morning with nobody on the server, so I'm guessing that the "Favourite Map" is from the last 24 hours and they don't take into consideration that nobody is playing for a few hours.

One of the reasons why I don't trust GT's stats is because our average players has been on 9/8 for a year now and I know for a fact that we are up about 20% over this time last year whether it's week vs week or month vs month.

Anyway, none of this matters. Hurry up and get your map done and we can get rid of BoF which should please you and Peg

Usually, I'm accustomed to maps that deliver the best possible gameplay being the standard driving content management decisions, but, sure, once in a while don't hesitate to go ahead n' make one based on what you think would please me - should be easy enough...

Ah GameTracker you liar witch! I'm not sure how it works, but it certainly does not show the *last week* popular maps, ergo it sucks.
Ziggurat is almost done, I only need to place zone portals and jumppads. Both tasks require a small amount of work and a large amount of thinking, so I hope I'll be able to present it this weekend.