ONS-Colossus-NV-[gio]

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gio
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Joined: Sat 10. Jul 2010, 15:23

ONS-Colossus-NV-[gio]

Post by gio »

Hi guys...there is a new no-vehicle map... :D
Since I played Bridge of Fate (NV version)...I was thinking about COLOSSUS map...normally for CTF or BR...
Now I made this map and I ask you heinz the chance of publish it on CEONSS...

Note that this is my first map...so folks don't expect too much...but likewise I'm asking to expert mappers for an issue in the map,
that is Radar Map...I'm not able to set it up...maybe lilaurl, can you help me?

Hoping that you all will enjoy this little work, I will improve it especially with your suggestions or bug reports

I will wait for your feedback

Download:
http://rapidshare.com/files/417488172/O ... V-_gio_.7z
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lilalurl
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Re: ONS-Colossus-NV-[gio]

Post by lilalurl »

Ok, I tested it. It can be a good idea indeed for a NV map.


First, here are some issues that I have with the map. Some of them are more subjective than others, so you can make your own choices (but ofc, in the end it is laboRHEinz who decides :silent: )


1) I have never been enthusiastic about the redeemer. Especially in a NV map, as it can have too much impact and I fear that some players will spend more time trying to get it rather than fighting for the nodes.

You can replace it with a Keg or a super shield.
Or...

2) Given that this is a map that was originally CTF/BR, in case you don't know, it is possible to have a translocator in Onslaught.
It can be limited to one charge (check ONS-Silva) or behave like the default translocator (check ONS-Suspense).

In my opinion, it would make a good replacement for the redeemer: in good hands, it can be quite powerful since the player getting it can travel faster and reach specific places more easily.

You can also, if you wish, make it a weapon available for everyone (as is done in Suspense, by putting a pickup at the same place as the weapon lockers).


On the other hand, not many Onslaught players have a keybind for the translocator or don't use it when they have access to it (from my experience when playing Silva or Suspense).


3) In case you don't know about them, there are also some custom pickups to replace the redeemer with (or to place somewhere else) like an invisibility pickup (Suspense) or jump boots (recent versions of Rail).


4) Now that you have converted the map to Onslaught and although it only matters for offline play, you could edit the description (level properties -> levelsummary). Right now it mentions flags... ;)


5) As you can see on this screenshot, the underground nodes could be a bit more aligned (look at the roof opening and the weapon locker).
http://tarantola.alexandre.free.fr/temp/nodealign.jpg


6) I believe you got the right number of nodes (not too many, not too little). But I believe that many of them are exposed too much and would need more cover.
It is a bit difficult to protect/build a node when your enemies can just spawn and shoot it (of course, this is no longer valid on maps such as Maelstrom-NV which plays on the fact it has a large number of nodes. And also, except in the middle area most nodes in Maelstrom are not directly shootable from another node).

This is very obvious with some pair of nodes like 11 and 12.

But it could also be an issue with the primary nodes that are on the sides of the powercores. Suppose that your team takes one of those and is ready to attack the enemy core. Then enemies will easily lock down the node as it can be directly shot from where they can spawn at the core. As a consequence you will have to spawn to a further node and it is very likely that the primary node will be take back in a matter of seconds.
I could be mistaken but I have some doubts on how much strategy will be involved there.

What would you think about moving some nodes to places that are more covered and take more time to reach. For instance, why not use some spots on the walkways (where I am aiming at):
http://tarantola.alexandre.free.fr/temp ... cation.jpg


Well, perhaps people will play differently from what I expect but right now I expect it to turn a bit into a sort of larger Draor :problem: .





Now for the radarmap:

I have added it:
http://tarantola.alexandre.free.fr/temp/colossus.7z

I highly advise that you try to re-do it yourself (besides mine may not be perfect as I don't know the map as much as you) so that you can learn. But at least, if you want you can to focus on other things .
Edit: Now that I think about it, it is far from perfect, so you really have to re-do it :D. But if that bothers you too much or don't succeed, I'll try and do something that fits better


In the archive I have included the screenshots I took and used to do it. This way, you can use them if you don't want to bother with this part or don't manage to take good ones.


First, here are two tutorials that have sections on the radarmap that you may want to read:

http://www.angelmapper.com/gamedev/tuto ... laught.htm
http://www.psyonix.com/OnslaughtMapTutorial.shtml


More importantly, here is the technique I use, based on HunterW's approach:
http://ut2004.titaninternet.co.uk/forum ... post110207
alpha:
how did you do your radar images, because i read up on them and it seems like all of the methods suck, so did you find a good one?

HunterW:
finally, radarmaps. all the methods suck frankly because there isn't a good method. you can't get the engine to render isometrically;
you have to use a perspective, so the best way to get the minimal amount of perspective warp is to change your FOV in game to a low number. what i do is go to the direct center of the map, turn on noclip, look straight down, then back up (thus flying up away from the map. oh, you also need to turn off your hud, make your crosshair invisible, and hide your weapon.)
once you are pretty high up, change the FOV to about 50 in console (i believe the command is just fov 50) and zoom back so that you get the whole map, line it up so that you're looking down exactly square, then take your screenshot. then hit escape so that your big radarmap comes up with the node layout (the menu you pick which node to spawn at.)
take a picture of this too, you'll need it.
from the center of the picture you took, clip out the square that aligns to your terrain. check this square you cut out against the picture of the esc radarmap you took to make sure that the nodes of the radar line up with the picture you are using.
it should be 512x512 pixels. once they are lined up and you are satisfied, import the 512x512 bitmap in to myLevel texture package, leave the group field blank, and name it radarmap. then press F6 to go to your level properties, and set the radarmap texture to myLevel.radarmap...should be easy, you just select it in the texture browser, then click the Use button in that field.



When he says zoom back, he means use a greater fov (which is actually how zoom in/zoom out works).
Rather than flying, you can directly use the 'teleport' console command if you aim well.

I don't know how familiar you are with all the things mentioned so here are a few things to check:
a tutorial on myleveling: be sure to read it and especially the part that tells you NOT TO SAVE the mylevel package:
http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:MyLevel


Learn some of the console commands:
killbots
fov
fly
teleport
togglescreenshotmode


You can use any image editor you are familiar with I guess. But to work comfortably, you need at least one using a layer system and allows you to play on the opacity of the layers. This way you can fine tune the terrain image position/size while seeing the node setup underneath.

I use the following (both free):
Irfanview (basic viewing + selecting and final resizing to 512*512)
Paint.net (layers and most resizing/clipping)



Feel free to ask any question if you are stuck.
Also be sure, especially if you are going to try something you are not familiar with, to make regular backups of your map so that you can roll back if needed.
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lilalurl
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Re: ONS-Colossus-NV-[gio]

Post by lilalurl »

Hmmm, I had not paid enough attention (sorry, had to do some quick work) but the map is not centered.
Therefore the node setup was off center (blue core at the bottom while red core was far from the top).

Perhaps this was the issue that you meant rather than the radar map background image.
Anyway, I am currently fixing it (actually it should be fixed, just need to rebuild and as I have quite an old computer it might take a while).

So wait a bit and I will post a new version of the map with that issue fixed.
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lilalurl
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Re: ONS-Colossus-NV-[gio]

Post by lilalurl »

Ok things should look better now (new screenshots used for the radar map included):
http://tarantola.alexandre.free.fr/temp/colossus.7z

I renamed the map: beta1 so that you don't erase your old version by mistake (in case I introduced an issue when I centered the map, although it should not be the case). Removed the NV part since as far as I know there is no version with vehicles (add it back in case you think about doing such a version, although I don't think that would work well).


Btw, after the rebuild there were a few errors, notably two pickup bases floating. Nothing major I guess but if you can fix those, that would be great.
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laboRHEinz
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Re: ONS-Colossus-NV-[gio]

Post by laboRHEinz »

Thanks a lot gio & lila, I took a short look into the 1st version (was too late for the latest, sorry). My first impression is that this can be a nice map to add to the roster. At least, we should try it on the server. Will check the latest version and likely upload it tomorrow.
gio
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Re: ONS-Colossus-NV-[gio]

Post by gio »

One only word lila for you...simply GREAT... :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Tnx very very much for your suggestions and your help...it seems you're an expert mapper!!

Yesterday I did not have much time to see your changes/corrections...in any case this evening I will take a look.

Thanks again
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laboRHEinz
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Re: ONS-Colossus-NV-[gio]

Post by laboRHEinz »

ok beta-1 is uploaded, let's see what players think about it.
gio
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Joined: Sat 10. Jul 2010, 15:23

Re: ONS-Colossus-NV-[gio]

Post by gio »

Tnx laboRHEinz for uploading map...

We also tried it this evening but unfortunately the match has ended very quickly...maybe a little unbalanced teams...but also I noticed that nodes are too uncovered and easy to destroy...

For this reason I decided to follow your suggestion lila...

At this link there is new configuration of nodes...so I'm asking you being still patient and give me some feedback about this new release.
Please take a look even to further saved schemes (Schema1, Schema2, Schema3)...these last three provide a pair of additional nodes per team
http://rapidshare.com/files/418159048/O ... -beta1a.7z

Note that I fixed some alignement of actors to the floor...but there is still mutch to do (just to notify that is not a releasable version)
I added Translocator pickup (I must limit the ammo to 1 or 2)..I liked this idea...
Then I was going to remove reedemer or leave just only one...I will think about this...

Thanks again for you help lilaurl...I'll be waiting for your new suggestions

Almost forgot...your radar map is great...thanks again for this...
I know...I must try to reproduce it myself but for the moment I have not much time to spend for this map develop...but I will try ;)

gio
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lilalurl
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Re: ONS-Colossus-NV-[gio]

Post by lilalurl »

Ok, here is some feedback. Ofc, if you have already some of those things planned for your next playable release, just jump to the next point.


- The teleporter "entry" near the blue core (leading to the redeemer) is not correctly placed (the "entry" is not on the emitter)
http://tarantola.alexandre.free.fr/temp/teleporter.jpg

- You should fix the destination for the jumppads leading to the Supershield and the Keg in the center of the map. Right now, you land a bit away from where you'd expect (in front of the pickups).
http://tarantola.alexandre.free.fr/temp/jump%20pad.jpg

- Have you changed (on purpose that is) something in terms of sound in the underground rooms (the ones with the nodes I asked you to align correctly)? I can now hear an echo effect that I did not hear before.
http://tarantola.alexandre.free.fr/temp/echo.jpg

If yes, perhaps you should limit its effect as it is a bit too strong now (perhaps the amount you hear depends from the sound card though, especially if it has EAx or not, so if it sounds right for you, leave it as it is).


- You probably have already planned to work on this, but now that you have new nodes and moved some old ones, You really need to take care of the playerstarts and the lockers for those. Right now, you can sometimes spawn quite away from a node and a locker.
Don't forget that the best practice is to have playerstarts facing the nearest locker so that players can equip themselves quickly when they spawn.


- Regarding the translocator, use the version in Silva if you want to limit it to 1 shot.
Otherwise, if you know or want to give a try to Uscript, the value for the number of available shots (and perhaps the one for the speed at which it refills) is probably in the Default Properties section of the translocator class.
So it should be easily editable to your liking.

I can take a bit of time later to have a look if you don't want and have some specific wishes.


- I have seen from time to time a weird artifact appearing from under the terrain, which looks like a small life bar.
http://tarantola.alexandre.free.fr/temp/artifact.jpg
Was it there before? Was it introduced when I fixed the radar map? It is not really important but I guess it should be investigated.


- Regarding the new location of the primary nodes: Right now, you can shoot each one from the other one area.
http://tarantola.alexandre.free.fr/temp/pillar1.jpg

If I were you, I would move them a bit to use some of the structures to provide some cover from direct hits. It could be the pillar on top of which there is the sniper rifle. Or it could be the bridge pillars I am aiming at in this screenshot:
http://tarantola.alexandre.free.fr/temp/pillar2.jpg
This way players would need to move at least a bit to attack one node from another if it happens that one is belongs to one team and the other to the other team.


- Finally, the new nodes. From your post, I guess you have made some new link setups. Unfortunately it seems like you forgot to embed them in the map.
The simplest thing for you to do right now (it is better to embed them for "playable" releases of course) would be to go to your UT2004/System folder and find the "exact name of the map".ini file and upload it.

This way laboRHEinz and me could test quickly (ie without you having to re-upload the map) how the new suggested links setup would work.

I tried to briefly think of how the new nodes could be integrated and they probably have some potential, but of course I'd like to see what you suggested.
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laboRHEinz
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Re: ONS-Colossus-NV-[gio]

Post by laboRHEinz »

New version is up.
Yesterday, the former version was played and there were many lag complaints i.e. far more than usual. Is there anything in the map causing lag?
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