ONS-Shipdock feedback

[Dalyup!]

Here is some feedback for the new-ish Shipdock map. Ideally, it would be better to give a thorough review like Heinz has done for possible new maps but I figure some feedback is better than none. Feel free to add your own.

Shipdock-edit

I've never really liked this map. Primarily because I like open maps with flyers and several routes to reach any node which this map does not do. You are essentially funneled through two somewhat short corridors (the middle nodes) that are easily defended by vehicles with splash damage due to its narrowness and the fact it has walls on both sides. Hard to miss, so you need a vehicle. The only alternative for those on foot (since the water is actually acid) is to leap up to the centre node and battle it out there, a node which people often neglect, and leap down. It's rather easy to keep that node down too.

I don't think this map will ever be redeemable in my eyes - well, when I'm on foot - but it's not that bad and the edit has solved a few issues. Anyway, some pros and cons about the edit:

Pros

• Addition of more jump pads was good, especially on the middle submarine. If you fell on you on there before, you were essentially dead.
• More space around nodes was good, it was pretty cramped before, and easy to kill everyone with splash damage.
• Fire badger is pretty cool.

Cons

• The HoverBadger is admittedly a cool vehicle but putting something as powerful as the goliath shell on a fast moving and partially flying vehicle makes it far too powerful (the same goes for the normal Badger). The splash damage from those shells are really strong and it is hard to fight back against them.
• I don't understand the purpose of putting the paladin in that garage room (or whatever). It can obviously defend it very well there but other than that it has little use due to the amount of space it needs to navigate. I'm not sure what you could replace it with, perhaps a raptor?

That's all I have for now, I'll add any more the next time I play it.

[Cat1981England]

Thank you Daly, that's precisely the type constructive criticism needed if we are to have a large, healthy selection of maps we all wish to play on

So is the idea to discuss maps in this thread or is it just for feedback?

[Dalyup!]

Well, I was thinking just for some feedback, however long, but I suppose discussing how to make the map better can come under that too. Whatever really, as long as it's about the new maps and constructive.

[Karma_geddon]

Nice thread!

Should I post my thoughts on Shipdock here or should we open a dedicated thread for it?

[Degrek Phantoka]

Well...Could somebody tell me which are the "new" maps? I would like to leave some feedback but I don't know which are old and which are new.

[Dalyup!]

Just post your feedback here, Karma. If we get a large amount of feedback I imagine we can migrate to another thread then.

I meant this thread for anyone to post their feedback for any new map, for which I define as the latest ones which are added to the server's map roster which you can deduce in-game by checking the map with the lowest 'Played' number in the voting interface. There's probably a way of checking in the forum but I can't seem to find any thread that tells you.

[Karma_geddon]

Ok. About Shipdock:

I appreciate the edited versions and I think that, overall, it's an enjoyable map. Let's see what I can add to Daly's list...

Pros:
- the hover badgers, here, are fun and useful. They can pop out from the fences to shoot: this map seems to be designed just for them. Thumbs up for that vehicle choice!

Cons / possible edits:
- I don't understand why the OMFG gun has been removed completely and not just substituted with a more traditional super weapon. Comeback is hard in this map, and the losing team could benefit from an extra deemer.
- as Daly pointed out, the water is acid. It might seem a dumb question, but... Why? Is there a necessity for the water to be acid in this map? Wouldn't it be ok if people could just swim from one shore to the other, avoiding the two corridors? It could be a stealthy way to reach the other side, like the tunnels in MasterShower. It could also be good to add a superweapon underwater, to make things more interesting.
- I don't remember if there is one already, but the core could benefit from a Paladin. As I said, comeback is hard, and the base could be quickly filled by the enemy's mantas and badgers. A Paladin could help a little, here. Or maybe, even a Turtle.

[Pegasus]

Put any feedback for any new maps added or to be added to the server in this thread. Ideally, it would be better to give a thorough review like Heinz has done for possible new maps but I figure some feedback is better than none. Feel free to add your own.[...]

Hmm. While Heinz stringing together reviews for different maps one after another made sense in the context of that specific thread (addressing the suitability of proposed new/undiscovered maps that aren't yet hosted on the server), I can't help wonder whether your choice to amass all manner of lengthier map-specific feedback here for content that already is part of the roster might be as helpful to mappers and the content management team as the aforementioned thread tries to be with fulfilling its own specific purpose, never mind whether the two are comparable cases. Main reason I'm saying this can be illustrated by an example from this very thread:

[...]Should I post my thoughts on Shipdock here or should we open a dedicated thread for it?

What concerns me here is, should such a practice become commonplace and everyone with more than a couple o' sentences' worth of thoughts and criticisms on hosted content decide to start housing their feedback in their own omnibus threads, anyone who might later take it upon themselves to improve said content with a new edit would be far more likely to miss a number of crucial or helpful observations that members here thought of (even when attempting to research the matter beforehand by scanning this msg. board) just by virtue of those points being scattered in disparate threads all over (hopefully just) one subforum instead of them being filed in a much more orderly/predictable fashion under the relevant, map/edit-named thread. Meanwhile, as already evidenced by Karma's bemusement above, even people trying to abide by the age old Internet msg. boards maxim about posting in existing (relevant) threads instead of creating a new one would have to decide which among, say, half a dozen such personal catch-all feedback blogs threads would be more appropriate for them to post their own suggestions under. All in all, I just don't think Daly's approach here is as viable and helpful an organizational concept in the long-term as simply starting a thread in the CEONSS subforum (or in the CC, if its creator is already intent on starting work on a newer edit) dedicated to the discussion of a specific map where everyone's input could be more neatly - and predictably - compiled.

Anyway, sorry for the procedure-focused rant here. I've got plenty of thoughts on Shipdock and, while some of its flaws n' drawbacks I've picked up on have already been mentioned here (particularly the narrow n' linear shape of its central area's playable space, with all the playstyle constriction that seems to lead to), going at length on the rest of 'em, which I do mean to do, will have to wait awhile longer as I sort out some other, pending affairs here first. Should this thread be operating under a different title and with an adjusted focus by the time I do swing back to it though, that'll be something I certainly won't object to .

[Dalyup!]

I think I understand where you're coming from, Peg. In other words, you believe it's better for each (new) map to have its own thread where feedback for that particular map is compiled there as that is a more logical and intuitive approach? If so, that does seem a more sensible method.

I think my idea with this thread was that this host would small bits of feedback about new maps, some of which may only get a few lines as they have few issues. For example, I have two issues with SpaceCargo but they are very slight and not of much importance. Any maps that start to create a larger discussion, like Shipdock is doing, could be migrated to another thread. That would not really be needed for SpaceCargo - but perhaps, now that I think about it, making a thread for it, even if small, would stir discussion by itself, like Zoner's recent thread about the bug in Bitchslap.

What do you guys think, should I repurpose this thread just for Shipdock? It does seem to be the only especially problematic new map at the moment.

[Karma_geddon]

I agree that renaming the thread to something more "Shipdock specific", could be the least painful thing to do. We are still in time to make this a Shipdock-dedicated thread, after all.